Something I notice about AR vs EVA

I have a character geared with BiS armor type items and I'm still grabbing acrobatics (sacrificing half my armor) and I choose not to take Iron Reflexes and Unwaivering Stance. I thought about why, and it's simple. Armor only works against physical damage, whereas evasion works against all types of attacks. On top of this, Acro/Phase users get 30% chance to dodge spells. 30% reduced spell damage taken and 40% reduced attack damage taken ON TOP of 75% resists. Armor has no keystones to compete with that.

Armor needs keystones that have some mitigation of spells (max resists buried behind an armor type keystone would be a step in the right direction). Right now evasion side of the tree offer MORE defense rather than just DIFFERENT defense. Please balance armor portion of the tree to have some forms of spell/ele mitigation.

If you agree please bump this thread so that GGG sees it :)

We've done the max res thing to death; additive bonuses that scale to 100% mitigation are a bad idea, and they were removed from the tree for good reason.

I am, however, in favor of converting a small portion of AR into elemental mitigation. This effect is multiplication with resists and can therefore scale without approaching full mitigation.

I like that idea too. I just feel armor needs more ele mitigation than it has at the moment. Because currently we've got resists (which can be penetrated) and that's it.

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CanHasPants wrote:

We've done the max res thing to death; additive bonuses that scale to 100% mitigation are a bad idea, and they were removed from the tree for good reason.

I am, however, in favor of converting a small portion of AR into elemental mitigation. This effect is multiplication with resists and can therefore scale without approaching full mitigation.

But wouldn't that make armor strictly superior to evasion? I mean, something similar to the situation before the trigger gems were added, that Iron Reflex was overused...

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NeroNoah wrote:

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CanHasPants wrote:

We've done the max res thing to death; additive bonuses that scale to 100% mitigation are a bad idea, and they were removed from the tree for good reason.

I am, however, in favor of converting a small portion of AR into elemental mitigation. This effect is multiplication with resists and can therefore scale without approaching full mitigation.

But wouldn't that make armor strictly superior to evasion? I mean, something similar to the situation before the trigger gems were added, that Iron Reflex was overused...

AR vs EV balance was disturbed not only by Trigger Gems. Also by power creep that made most fights much shorter thus reducing value of sustain-type defenses and increasing burst-defenses

and with these (once reaching both reasonable 'miss ratio' + buffer level) it is always better to not get hit at all compared to being constantly hit for less

being hit is always bad in this game (except for some showcase builds) - stuns, status aliments, knockback, bleed/poison, curse-on-hit, mob charge generation and desync. all come from being hit.

if fights are to be as short as they are now - that is if the current player' damage level is to stay there wont be many AR enthusiasts. but i agree that armor should at least provide another % layer vs elemental. +max is a bad idea tho.

btw Acro block penalty is the same story - in most cases 40% dodge is worth a lot more than 30% less block

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sidtherat wrote:

AR vs EV balance was disturbed not only by Trigger Gems. Also by power creep that made most fights much shorter thus reducing value of sustain-type defenses and increasing burst-defenses

and with these (once reaching both reasonable 'miss ratio' + buffer level) it is always better to not get hit at all compared to being constantly hit for less

Actually, for anything dealing more than 12.5% or so max Life per hit, Evasion is the superior defense. I'd say some of those hits are small enough to fall into the "consistent" category.

IMHO Evasion has been superior since Day 1, although a AR/EV mix best of all. Yes, increasing damage has caused a meta shift, but the line is well below where you think it is in terms of how much damage per hit is necessary to justify a shift.

I think players mostly went AR in OB due to a massive communal failure to be good at math.

well.. ive done my math myself and if i had to fight phys-spell-exile for 1 minute as an EV char it was threading on a thin line

now the same fight in the same map with the same level character takes 5seconds. i can afford to take one hit with granite

that was my math

but you are right - people are not good at math and follow streamers with disregard to facts. but to be honest - these theories were created and followed in a COMPLETELY different meta. these were the days of farming docks of lunaris2 up to level 70-75 before even starting to map. currently we do double? triple? damage vs the same content.

plus the cwdt-ic-id combo that made armor pretty much useless (esp vs reflect)

lots have changed since golden days of IR domination so it wasnt all due to sheep-behavior

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

AR vs EV balance was disturbed not only by Trigger Gems. Also by power creep that made most fights much shorter thus reducing value of sustain-type defenses and increasing burst-defenses

and with these (once reaching both reasonable 'miss ratio' + buffer level) it is always better to not get hit at all compared to being constantly hit for less

Actually, for anything dealing more than 12.5% or so max Life per hit, Evasion is the superior defense. I'd say some of those hits are small enough to fall into the "consistent" category.

IMHO Evasion has been superior since Day 1, although a AR/EV mix best of all. Yes, increasing damage has caused a meta shift, but the line is well below where you think it is in terms of how much damage per hit is necessary to justify a shift.

I think players mostly went AR in OB due to a massive communal failure to be good at math.

Nah, math was known. Game was vastly different between CB when AR or ES was king.

ES was insane back then lol.

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trav_dawg wrote:

Armor needs keystones that have some mitigation of spells (max resists buried behind an armor type keystone would be a step in the right direction). Right now evasion side of the tree offer MORE defense rather than just DIFFERENT defense. Please balance armor portion of the tree to have some forms of spell/ele mitigation.

This is exactly how it was before the big patch that moved the max res nodes across the tree. The armor side had all the max res nodes and some nice spell block nodes. This was obviously a bit unfair to other character classes which is why GGG moved them and gave 1 to Witch and 1 to Ranger.

It isn't so much important where on the tree the nodes are... More so that there is an available else mitigation for armor characters