Map Running Economy Guide

Dealer,

Do you have solid data on the odds of the possible results from Vaaling? Your method doesn't sound particularly unwise. However, that's only if you have a character that can do virtually all map mods (or a combination thereof).

Even with not being able to do Stasis and Blood Magic, its a pretty risky proposition. Those are both Suffixes and a Vaal Orb rolling the 8 mods is going to roll four of them. You can't have repeat suffixes, so your odds go up considerably in getting a roll you cannot do.

The two you refer to are rarer results, but they aren't as rare when you knock 3 out of 20 results off of the table. There a limited amount of suffix results and every time you get one you want, it increases the odds of getting one you don't want.

I would say that if Blood Magic and No Regen are your sole "No Go" mods, then you are taking on more of a risk than a simple 2.5%. I do like how you are using them to recover a poor alchemy roll but I personally wouldn't do it unless I had characters set up that could run any of those maps no matter the result.

I look at those maps you have listed and while the IIQ is great, none of them look particularly attractive for my characters to run :) In fact, most of them have - Max Resist and that's a no go for my RF Marauder.

Grepman,

I checked the vendor religiously as I level up all characters. My supply of low level maps has never exceeded my supply of hammers. I also pick up white hammers as they drop in my maps. However, I still don't get enough low level map drops to supply all the chisels I want to use on even my 76+ maps. So I am either trading for the chisels I need or running lower maps until I make enough of them.

Lastly, whether you personally choose to chisel up 74 and below maps it still isn't a wise investment of that currency compared to using that currency to buy other 74 maps. Presuming that you are playing standard and that you agree with the posted exchange rates, then its not really arguable.

You can do whatever you want to do with your currency, but until a chisel is worth 5% of the map you are running, its not economically worth using. Again, if you are in-game wealthy then you can do whatever you like because its your time and currency. Wealthy people waste money all the time. Because they can ;)

@Cragwell

corruption is random, that is the only solid data i can provide. plus sometimes you get vaal temple. no regen and bm are really rare, i only had 4 maps in total that had one of these while playing my current lvl 93 char.

whats regarding those combos that may sound like (and may be) a suicide for quite a few buuilds, it aint for mine. i have like 300 armor in total, no aa, no es either (it went for eldritch battery), i got 5.4k hp atm and i died only two times (both times died to double palace dominus because i get HUGE lag spikes when i roll twinned in there).

i survive maps by being careful, thats it. oh and srs damage is close to insane with melee splash+multistrike and having hatred linked to generosity (best offence is better than best defence imo)

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Frags/chisels grant a larger bonus on maps that have low iiq because of diminishing returns. So you should actually be using them on the lower iiq rolls, especially on the maps with pack size/ magic mobs.

yh i know. but honestly im yet to spot a difference after 40+ runs while keeping some sort of attention to what when does drop. then again there aint that many maps that exceed 150iiq so at this point even if d-returns increase, they are not that severe

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Cragwell wrote:

Grepman,

I checked the vendor religiously as I level up all characters. My supply of low level maps has never exceeded my supply of hammers. I also pick up white hammers as they drop in my maps. However, I still don't get enough low level map drops to supply all the chisels I want to use on even my 76+ maps. So I am either trading for the chisels I need or running lower maps until I make enough of them.

interesting, for me its the opposite. I have a ton of low level maps and at some point I dont run out of them. of course I do play standard so they stack up. I only leave linear maps like pier, underground sea, promenade, etc for alts to run and vendor the rest for chisel recipes

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Lastly, whether you personally choose to chisel up 74 and below maps it still isn't a wise investment of that currency compared to using that currency to buy other 74 maps. Presuming that you are playing standard and that you agree with the posted exchange rates, then its not really arguable.

thats a fair point, agreed. this strategy works for someone who trades either never or very rarely (ie me, Im a lazy fuck who only trades when I have excess currency like chromes, etc), because you cant use chisels on a carto box.

one point is I do make many alt tppms and on those alts you often get as many as 6 hammers per each level up on low level. so I havent ran out of chisels in forever. but yes, I agree, its not profitable to chisel maps if you can just buy the maps cheaper.

for example I did a one week race for the prizes (reached 30, bailed) but got like 40 hammers or so out of it that I promptly transferred to 40 chisels.

"

You can do whatever you want to do with your currency, but until a chisel is worth 5% of the map you are running, its not economically worth using. Again, if you are in-game wealthy then you can do whatever you like because its your time and currency. Wealthy people waste money all the time. Because they can ;)

right, but I wouldnt consider myself wealthy at all, and not in a million years by standard league standards. but I havent bought a map for years and I can sustain chisels and can somewhat sustain a high level map pool

Grep,

If you are running mostly self found and not making use of the trade economy, then you would definitely make different choices. I don't turn my 71+ maps into Chisels and usually keep my 70 maps. I find that I can move 71-73 maps that I don't want. I definitely have an excess of level 70 maps and should probably convert them. 69 and below maps I can't seem to consume at the same rate that I find hammers.

You are playing more of a solo style and I believe that there is a good post on this here;

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/339977

I always felt, and commented as such, that this guide is amazing but that it was more designed for people playing who weren't taking advantage of the trade resources available to them.

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Cragwell wrote:

Grep,

If you are running mostly self found and not making use of the trade economy, then you would definitely make different choices. I don't turn my 71+ maps into Chisels and usually keep my 70 maps. I find that I can move 71-73 maps that I don't want. I definitely have an excess of level 70 maps and should probably convert them. 69 and below maps I can't seem to consume at the same rate that I find hammers.

You are playing more of a solo style and I believe that there is a good post on this here;

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/339977

I always felt, and commented as such, that this guide is amazing but that it was more designed for people playing who weren't taking advantage of the trade resources available to them.

Im not really self found per se, I just try to avoid trading unless I feel like it (and I dont feel like it often), plus the map changes over the years make it so I dont really have a reason to as I can sustain maps at an acceptable rate. but yeah definitely solo style playing for most part.

and yes, that thread has been a staple ever since Ive started mapping back in open beta :) although I think it might be quite outdated at this point

cheers !

On the subject of IIQ, where is the research on the diminishing returns in regards to mapping? I see a lot of research on diminishing returns in its effect combined with IIR and farm speed. However, when it comes to trying to get more maps to drop is there any research showing that IIQ starts to lose effectiveness? Perhaps I am looking in the wrong places?

I have always been working under the assumption that IIQ is a linear return on getting more maps to drop and thus maintaining your pool of higher level maps.

Ah I see your point. Chisels must be used on a white map though, so your value consideration there can't take that into account. I suppose you should give preference to using fragments with maps that have lower IIQ, but if you are Alting/Regaling your high level maps you won't ever be running high IIQ maps.

Also, 5% more at 25% or 5% more at 125% doesn't change the base concept that you get 5% more chance to get a map drop on both maps. Its the same linear result. You will get more extra maps in comparison when running low IIQ maps, but you will get the same amount of extra maps from a frag and its 5% value on a high IIQ map. Its more a point of view thing. You are looking at the ratio of extra maps from your 5% on specific IIQ drop rates. Over time, the extra map drops from using Frags will be exactly the same number of map drops independent of the IIQ of the specific maps you ran.

It really shouldn't come into account if your goal is to stay in the 77/78 map tier. If your goal is to average out the results between your low IIQ maps and your high IIQ maps, you can use Frags only on low IIQ. However, the net results over time are the same.

I would not, for instance, use frags on a low IIQ 77 map in preference to a high IIQ 78 map. You should want the extra 5% in that 78 map always. The value of the map you are running should always trump the IIQ of the map you run. If you are short on fragments and running only 78 maps, then I suppose for the sake of averaging your results I could see giving preference to using frags on your low IIQ maps.

But you get the exact same chance for extra map drops from using a frag no matter what the IIQ your map. The total number of maps stays the same, all this would do is help even out your drop rate. You still shouldn't be saving your Fragments for low IIQ maps. You should be using them when they are likely to generate more value than their cost.

I can't change my advice based on this perception. I would still say that maps should have frags used on them if the fragment's trade value is worth less than 5% of the map. Also, its not a decision you get to make with chisels. Chisels must be used on white maps and you can't make that call after the map is rolled. The degeneration of chisel value when used on Magic and Rare maps is far too steep for this to even come into consideration.

omg, people. im reading all of this and two words come into my mind - dat fckn math (math isnt a word - its an index for frustration)