The Downfall of Zombies and Spectres in late game
" self quote: So far the damage seems more manageable using both that turboflask and LL. Still a lost spectre = leave map to get new ones. Lucky me I use it as domifarmer now :) Vorici can shove his fuse up his [removed]
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We can always re Nerf desecrate to cap at 78
Last edited by Saltychipmunk on Sep 7, 2014, 10:59:36 AM
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I have mentioned my idea on how to fix this Spectre issue.
Just make it so that the Spectre Gem ignores corpse level and Raises a Spectre according to the Gem level. So, let's say a level 20 Spectre Gem raises a level 79 Spectre, regardless of area. That Spectre will still get downlevelled according to area, so in a 66 area, that would be a level 66 Spectre. However, if you go to maps and go to a level 75 area, that Spectre is now level 75, since it is supposed to be a level 79 Spectre. This would bypass the need to have Desecrate break corpse level limit. Which in turn would make Detonate Dead builds too strong. |
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My thoughts on how summoners perform now. I have played summoner since the start of nemesis, so I got some idea what I'm talking about.
I started playing a summoner at the start of Rampage. Typical life build as many start with at the start of a new league. Had no big problems until I hit 75 maps. At that point I had to GCP up my Zombie gem, use purity of elements, and in some cases I had to use a minion resist gem to make them tanky enough. While focusing a lot on keeping my minions alive long enough in harder fights by using GCP's on gems, I didn't have enough currency to keep myself alive. I tried different styles of play and eventually invested in a Vis Mortis and bought 40 regret orbs to go CI. This worked a bit better for clear speed because of the extra spectre, but I still got a random death now and then. I decided to just sell all my gear and try out SRS instead, because I didn't get anywhere higher than 75 maps. The gear I sold got me a total of 16 Exalted Orbs. I bought SRS gear for 12 Ex and I could do the few 77 shrine maps I had with no problems. Two of the maps were 2 unique bosses, and was easy. The next day I tried to do Atziri, and I did it in my first ever run. I can't see myself doing Atziri as a Spectre/Zombie summoner ever. This is simply because the minions die far too quickly. Yourself are way too squishy because too many gem slots are occupied by summon gems. 10 of them to be exact. 6L spectre and 4L zobies in +2 helmet. (some use Vaal summon skeletons, but I believe Vaal haste to be stronger.) With SRS you got 6L spirits and the rest of gem slots can be used for defensive gems, such as; auras, cwdt, curses, Vaal skills etc. The only way I could see a pure summoner work in high level content is if minions were more tanky, so the player don't have to sacrifice potions slots to heal minions. If I could max my resist on gear instead of using purity of elements for minions, then I could get another defensive aura. There is just so much that could be done to make summoners more viable for endgame. And I must say, not having to go to Scepter of God all the time to get Evangelists have made my playing experience much better overall. I feel summoners are far too fragile. They are clunky to play, having to get new minions all the time, and they are not reliable. (talking about how you can't effectively focus fire a target you would want to focus on. Minions live a life of their own.) In short; I do not recommend anyone playing a summoner now if you wish to do the 77-78 maps, or even Atziri. I just don't see how it is possible. Maybe it's possible with insane gear, but then again, why would you do that when there are a million other builds which are stronger and cheaper. | |
" Thank you for sharing the chronology of your build changes and experience. Indeed, as a Zombie and Spectre summoner, there are always few things that keep harassing the gameplay. Firstly, whenever Spectres are required we have to go Spectre of God to find Evangelist. This process has been so repetitive that we need to do that every time they died which happens pretty frequently in ultra end game maps. Sometimes, its just due to lame even lamer factors such as changing character, logout etc. Secondly, to be successful as Zombie and Spectre summoner build, there is no excuse other than getting insane cost of gears to be effective throughout the game. Else, we got to close our eyes and simply say some maps we can't do and its normal. Thirdly, the cost wise for our build to be effective better well spent in other type of builds which require less tedious setup and more fun. Seeing how other successful build with 200 ex can be so much OP shows that Zombie and Spectre build is chosen as a fun factor in early game to mid-end by players who insist in continuing to play it. I Love This Game Now, Being a Summoner Hardly Associated with Desync ♫
♥ ♥ ♥ My Shop http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/887292 ♥ ♥ ♥ ☻ ☻ ☻ Downfall of Zombie and Spectre in 1.2 Patch ☻ ☻ ☻ http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1019959 |
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It is not just survivability , permanent minion builds have a lower power ceiling compared to srs.
1 permanent minions builds need nerco aegis , not just for the block , but for the max resistances that some shields give . that dependence on necro aegis for a large part of over capped resists is a massive dependency. 2 you need so many quality of life abilities just so you can use permanent minions. bone offering flesh offering convocation a support totem you don't need any of those for srs that is 4 gem slots that you dont need anymore. 3 no access to 7l , and limited access to 6l. permanent minion builds will never have a 7l or even a sudo 7l. but beyond that the over dependence on minion level means an over dependence on the over priced empower gem which is difficult to acquire and even more difficult to level. and the fact that specters dont really gain anything from levels , means your are often stuck putting zombies in a +2 helm , damning them forever to 5l hell. 5l zombies are fine and dandy in 75 maps , but you really do want something better for super end game. 4 permanent minions builds have terrible node efficiency. you waste so many nodes traveling half the tree getting minion and aura nodes. so yeah perm build inferior to srs , but what do you expect when srs can get a 7l, drop all the clunky quality of life gems , not need to waste passives traveling the tree and can have auras that actually help your self? and don't get me started on that nightmare that is generosity. NO one should be using generosity it is not worth it at all. Last edited by Saltychipmunk on Sep 8, 2014, 8:33:13 AM
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Hoping this thread is getting attention from GGG.
I Love This Game Now, Being a Summoner Hardly Associated with Desync ♫
♥ ♥ ♥ My Shop http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/887292 ♥ ♥ ♥ ☻ ☻ ☻ Downfall of Zombie and Spectre in 1.2 Patch ☻ ☻ ☻ http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1019959 |
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I see several of the concerns raised, and I am not looking forward to end-game on my summoner.
But, I like being able to see stats, and when it comes to that, being a summoner has been absolutely horrible. How much damage are my zombies or specters capable of? I can only say "a lot", "a ton", "some", "a little" because they are only in relation of an enemy healthbar. Will switching a gem increase the damage? I don't know, because I can't check it. So, there are no numbers anywhere apart from their life. By switching melee physical on my zombies with faster attacks, does it increase or lower the damage? I can't tell. I feel there are so many gems that are required that don't really (but would benefit from) support-gems, so in the end, you get filled up. At least I am. Sure, I can possibly spare room for 1 more gem, but having curse on arc is to convenient to give up - with increased effect even. What would I like at this stage? A document consisting of base hp on level of different mobs in the game and other stats needed. Like cleave-bear, how much hp do they got compared to other things? 100% isn't really a number. A way to see tool-tip for your summons. Now, there is possible to have two individual specters with their own links (for god no what reason - but you can), you should be able to differentiate between those two and see their differences (think a window like mercenaries in Diablo 2 or something alike) | |
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Since POE Beta I have created 25 Pure Summoners, using mainly Shadow and Templar.
I am a dude and refuse to play a chick...yea i know, but hey .... its how i play. Anyway back to the point. I have gotten all summoners to around LVL 65 and yep the zombies and spectors die quickly. Even rolling a 6 socket with minion life and resistance and all passives. USELESS... Even with VAAL Summon Skeletons which is Awsome till late 50's. At this Current State of the game there is no viable way to roll end game maps with a pure summoner spec , without expensive Uniqes. This is my Opinion Based on My Experiances.. Hopefully a patch will eventualy Make this Build Viable without gimmicks..JUST PURE SUMMONER...ZOMBIES AND SPECTERES!!. |
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I love all the posts in this thread saying "JUST USE SHAV'S!!" That's like telling every melee build to just dual wield Mjölnirs. Derpy as derpy gets.
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