Mjolner questions

1. What spells are better to use with Mjolner? Arc, Storm Call, or Ball Lightning? I'm not considering Discharge since I won't be using a charge-based build.

2. Would it be better to use all spells to maximize the occurrence of spells, or why should one use Iron Will or Lightning Penetration?

2b. If a support gem is used, is Iron Will or Lightning Penetration better? Should IW be used for most content and LP used for tougher mobs and bosses?

3. Would Spectral Throw be the best skill to use with this? Seeing how LS cannot shotgun and ST hits targets as the projectiles go out and come back, it seems like it's the best attack. Can anyone think of a better attack to proc Mjolner casts? Currently thinking ST + GMP + LGOH + Faster Attacks + LMP + Blind.

1. Arc would probably be best from my personal standpoint, if you use cyclone to trigger projectiles tend to fly left and right mostly missing the crowd. It also doesn't require any supports to get basic functionality, that also goes for storm call but it has that nasty delay so I'd still go for arc. Not to mention you get extra chains on myolnir.

2. Well, it's like this, if you use one arc second one doubles your damage output, slapping a third one will make it 50% more. If you got a support that can beat 50% more damage you should use it, lightning penetration mostly fits the bill, it can provide boosts from ~50% more to maximum 140% more (if not using conductivity). Iron will is easy, socket it and check the dps, if you got little spell increases so it gives you over 50% more damage you can use it instead of third arc.

3. Not much of a selection here, it's cyclone, spectral throw or molten strike. Cyclone gives you two low-area hits at your attack rate but keeps you on the move which is pretty useful. I did an embarrassingly detailed probability calculation for molten strike once and it turned out each target in its threat radius gets struck by 1,5 projectiles on average per use if I remember right, if you add splash to main hit that's 2,5 hits per use. Spectral throw gives you two hits per target at your attack speed but it can also be more if you catch targets at max range, it's also the safest to use by far... and the most Thor-like.

for spell :

1 : Discharge is the best ( but you need a romira's banquet ( and voll's devotion makes it a lot better )

2 : Arc

3 : Ball lightning


2 skills + a support is the best, but Ironwill or lightning penetration ???
with a 2 arc setup, lightning pen is better against boss and some rare mob ( white and blue mob are too easy to kill with mjolner )

Ironwill is better if you have a double curse setup, or if you use discharge with voll's devotion ( you gonna deal lightning and fire damage ). And it depends on your tree, if you have no increase damage in it, it's a pure 85% more damage.
With ironwill, you can swap the gem for life leech when you want for hard fight.


You have 3 skills available :

Lightning Strike
=> best Pack clear, but it sucks for one target
link : LS - Multistrike - Faster Attack - GMP - Chain - Life gain on hit

Molten strike
Good pack clear, and the best skill for one target ( most proc, except if the target moves away ) the main problem is the delay before the balls to land.

link : MS - Multistrike - Faster Attack - GMP - Life gain on hit - ( LMP or Blind or what you want )

Cyclone
If you want to use cyclone, you have to play with multistrike, it's pretty strong for one target, ( a bit less proc than moltenstrike ) but it's instant and if the target move away it's not a problem. ( take care of mana cost ).
For pack clear, it's good ( less dps than moltenstrike, but your dps start immediatly , but desync and some weird random movement, makes it too random and dangerous.
link : Cyclone - Multistrike - Faster Attack - What you want ( curse on hit or life gain on hit or blind )

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raics wrote:

1. Arc would probably be best from my personal standpoint, if you use cyclone to trigger projectiles tend to fly left and right mostly missing the crowd. It also doesn't require any supports to get basic functionality, that also goes for storm call but it has that nasty delay so I'd still go for arc. Not to mention you get extra chains on myolnir.

2. Well, it's like this, if you use one arc second one doubles your damage output, slapping a third one will make it 50% more. If you got a support that can beat 50% more damage you should use it, lightning penetration mostly fits the bill, it can provide boosts from ~50% more to maximum 140% more (if not using conductivity). Iron will is easy, socket it and check the dps, if you got little spell increases so it gives you over 50% more damage you can use it instead of third arc.

3. Not much of a selection here, it's cyclone, spectral throw or molten strike. Cyclone gives you two low-area hits at your attack rate but keeps you on the move which is pretty useful. I did an embarrassingly detailed probability calculation for molten strike once and it turned out each target in its threat radius gets struck by 1,5 projectiles on average per use if I remember right, if you add splash to main hit that's 2,5 hits per use. Spectral throw gives you two hits per target at your attack speed but it can also be more if you catch targets at max range, it's also the safest to use by far... and the most Thor-like.

1. Yeah, I was thinking of using one Arc and one Ball Lightning since BL can hit the same target multiple times while Arc can't unless there are at least three targets.

2. Iron Will will give at least 61.8% increased damage. I'm planning on using Atziri's Foible so that's a minimum of 309 strength. In my calculations IW is better for non-resistant mobs while Lightning Penetration is better against bosses.

3. Wrong. Spectral Throw can have up to five projectiles hitting targets very close up or two or so projectiles hitting a target multiple times if at the edge of their path. Molten Strike might be better close up, but I'm probably going to try ST and stick with it. Cyclone just isn't going to work since I can't afford to get close and stay close. Cyclone probably would be the best overall if you can afford to get and stay close. Total of seven projectiles, actually. GMP + LMP.

@xMasaox:

As I said, I'm not considering Discharge.

As to the attacks, Lightning Strike is not the best. Spectral Throw is. Lightning Strike's projectiles can only ever cause one proc, and chaining tripples the total chance. Spectral Throw causes all projectiles to always hit on the way out and the way back. You can keep a room filled with ST projectiles and get procs much more than LS.

As to Multistrike with Cyclone, it's not an option. If you need to stop and run, you won't be able to. Additionally, it would require changing in certain areas and limits where you can use it.

I think you may be forgetting the effect that "Skills chain +1 times" would have on Lightning Strike's projectiles. Also I think it's nice being able to use multistrike with LS vs spectral throw with a slow weapon.

You seem pretty settled on your setup, dunno why you bothered asking in the first place.

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Natharias wrote:

3. Wrong. Spectral Throw can have up to five projectiles hitting targets very close up or two or so projectiles hitting a target multiple times if at the edge of their path. Molten Strike might be better close up, but I'm probably going to try ST and stick with it. Cyclone just isn't going to work since I can't afford to get close and stay close. Cyclone probably would be the best overall if you can afford to get and stay close. Total of seven projectiles, actually. GMP + LMP.

This is simply false. Spectral throw CANNOT shotgun. No attack can shotgun, ever. Attacks can only hit the same target every .2 seconds. Pure proc rate, nothing beats Lightningstrike for hits per second. Spectral throw cannot chain and cannot use multistrike. Mjolnir has +1 chain built in.

Molten strike with multistrike, gmp, conc effect, fast attacks is probably the highest single target proc rate.

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raics wrote:

You seem pretty settled on your setup, dunno why you bothered asking in the first place.

AoE:

ST: 7 projectiles, each can hit each monster at least twice.

LS: Initial hit + 9 projectiles. Ten hits that hit once. Chain tripples projectiles. 28 total possible hits.

It's about even, since both will do the job. If you're using Arc, it'll clear mobs with either skill.

Single Target:

ST: 7 projectiles, minimum of 14 guaranteed hits if the enemy is close up. If the enemy is kept at the edge of your attack range two projectiles could hit up to three times. This is a minimum of 14 or 6 hits.

Molten Strike: Initial hit + 9 projectiles. Ten total hits.

So can you see why I'm pretty stuck on ST? I thought you'd be able to realize why on your own. I'm asking to see if anyone can prove me wrong, and nobody has yet and now you're giving me attitude?

I'm also trying to find a skill that can be used alone, not switching between two skills. Molten Strike would probably be best if I used Multistrike, but I'm not planning on using it.

Come on raics, you're better than this.

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PeachieMark wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

3. Wrong. Spectral Throw can have up to five projectiles hitting targets very close up or two or so projectiles hitting a target multiple times if at the edge of their path. Molten Strike might be better close up, but I'm probably going to try ST and stick with it. Cyclone just isn't going to work since I can't afford to get close and stay close. Cyclone probably would be the best overall if you can afford to get and stay close. Total of seven projectiles, actually. GMP + LMP.

This is simply false. Spectral throw CANNOT shotgun. No attack can shotgun, ever. Attacks can only hit the same target every .2 seconds. Pure proc rate, nothing beats Lightningstrike for hits per second. Spectral throw cannot chain and cannot use multistrike. Mjolnir has +1 chain built in.

Molten strike with multistrike, gmp, conc effect, fast attacks is probably the highest single target proc rate.

Spectral Throw can shotgun, that is why it is so liked.

The 0.3 cooldown if for the attack rate of each projectile.

I suggest you read the wiki and brush up on your mechanics before calling someone's post bullshit

Ok genius. "an enemy can be hit once (per attack) every 0.3 seconds." That's taken from the page YOU posted. That's per attack NOT per projectile. No attacks in PoE can shotgun. It's hardcoded into the game. Shotgunning attacks was removed in beta. If you're going to tell me to read a page, make sure you've read it yourself.

And if you're still in denial, here's a petition to bring back shotgunning for attacks because it was REMOVED, and attacks CANNOT SHOTGUN.
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/544072

No, the weather is bad and I'm feeling grumpy for some reason, to present other options to you properly I'd first have to prove ST can't shotgun which I don't feel like doing. I don't really feel like debating either, you got my suggestions with some reasoning which should be enough for an experienced player, do with them what you will.