Why I think that armour will always be better than evasion for a Hardcore character

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Strill wrote:

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tinghshi wrote:

If you don't get one shotted that one hit, you can easily pop a flask, leech, regen, whatever. But if you have 95% armor, you will be hit every time. If a couple of those crit in a row, your armor will be reduced significantly, and most probably killing you.

Endurance charges completely break that theory since they don't depend on incoming damage.

Furthermore, no they won't kill you. An armour user who stacks endurance charges can cap out their damage reduction even against the strongest attacks from the strongest enemies in the game.

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It really doesn't matter since it's for the sake of comparison. Saying 50% DR and 50% EV is no different than 95% DR and 95% EV. Endurance charges are, again, irrelevant since any character can use it regardless of their defense.

Evasion users do not benefit from Endurance charges to anywhere near the degree that armour users do. Endurance Charges have increasing returns when stacked with armour and one another. Someone who uses them without stackign armour and the max amount of endurance charges will get far less benefit. Endurance charges can increase your effective health upwards of fivefold, but only if you invest heavily in them. Here's a chart showing the EHP of various numbers of endurance charges on a 3,000 damage attack with various amounts of armour.



The nine charge user can reach 90% damage reduction against a 3,000 damage attack with just 27,000 armour, which is completely reachable. They would for all intents and purposes be immune to physical damage. A 3 charge user or a 5 charge user would only have a third or a fourth of the effective health, even if they had more armour. It would also be nigh impossible for them to reach the cap.

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aantsi wrote:

How many of the people who post for evasion builds have characters that have completed merciless on HC? Theorycrafting is fine and all but when it comes HC - like certain keystone points out - consistency trumps over potential. Getting hit by small amounts of really big damage is never good compared to big amount of small damage which can be mitigated by a single life leech gem on your aoe ability.

Add to that that Iron Reflexes with couple armor/evasion nodes in the Duelist tree will give you insane amounts of armor just from having grace and determination up makes the ranged or extra fast mobs/packs and bosses much more manageable.

As far as I know you also can't get retarded amounts of evasion either because it doesn't go up to 100% no?

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Chance to Avoid Attack = 1 - ( (1 - Chance to Evade) * (1 - Chance to Dodge) * (1 - Chance to Block))

Let's fill in our numbers:

Chance to Avoid Attack = 1 - ( (1 - 0.95) * (1 - 0.3) * (1 - 0.75)) = 0.00875

0.00875 * 100% = 0.875% Chance to Avoid Attack Completely

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Chronoja wrote:

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Chance to Avoid Attack = 1 - ( (1 - Chance to Evade) * (1 - Chance to Dodge) * (1 - Chance to Block))

Let's fill in our numbers:

Chance to Avoid Attack = 1 - ( (1 - 0.95) * (1 - 0.3) * (1 - 0.75)) = 0.00875

0.00875 * 100% = 0.875% Chance to Avoid Attack Completely

I may be completely wrong here, but isn't the maths wrong from the very beginning?

if
Chance to avoid attack = 1 - ( (1 - 0.95) * (1 - 0.3) * (1 - 0.75))
= 1 - (0.00875)
= 0.99125 = 99.125% chance to avoid attack

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anubite wrote:

--> http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/89113

Evasion >= Armor.

If you are being one-shot in evasion you will be one-shot in armor. If you are taking enough damage to be one-shot in evasion, you either don't have enough life, or the attack is soooooo powerful that armor would only mitigate it by 5-10% AT MOST.

You need 12 times as much armor to reduce an attack's damage by 50%. That's how the formula works.

To mitigate Brutus' 3k slam with armor by 50%, you need 36k armor. Nobody has this much armor without determination+granite flask+endurance charges. And that's if it does exactly 3k damage. if it does 3.5k damage... you need 42k.

If you have even 1000 less armor than 36k, you will take significantly more damage.

The argument that evasion is weak to RNG is bullshit. Armor is actually MORE weak to rng, because it's completely random when brutus will crit for 4.5k damage. It's not completely random when you will evade an attack. If Brutus crits, you will need 50% more armor to mitigate the same % amount of damage, at least (I dunno Brutus' exact crit mult).

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OP, make an evasion character. Get it to maps. If you can't even do that, make a thread about it and then we'll talk. It's threads like these that create toxic fallacies that break down the popular understanding of game balance.

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Grokken wrote:

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anubite wrote:

--> http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/89113

Evasion >= Armor.

If you are being one-shot in evasion you will be one-shot in armor. If you are taking enough damage to be one-shot in evasion, you either don't have enough life, or the attack is soooooo powerful that armor would only mitigate it by 5-10% AT MOST.

You need 12 times as much armor to reduce an attack's damage by 50%. That's how the formula works.

To mitigate Brutus' 3k slam with armor by 50%, you need 36k armor. Nobody has this much armor without determination+granite flask+endurance charges. And that's if it does exactly 3k damage. if it does 3.5k damage... you need 42k.

If you have even 1000 less armor than 36k, you will take significantly more damage.

The argument that evasion is weak to RNG is bullshit. Armor is actually MORE weak to rng, because it's completely random when brutus will crit for 4.5k damage. It's not completely random when you will evade an attack. If Brutus crits, you will need 50% more armor to mitigate the same % amount of damage, at least (I dunno Brutus' exact crit mult).

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OP, make an evasion character. Get it to maps. If you can't even do that, make a thread about it and then we'll talk. It's threads like these that create toxic fallacies that break down the popular understanding of game balance.

having 1000 less armor would not have a significant effect on reduction in the case you stated:

Damage Reduction = Armour / ( Armour + (12 * Damage) )

36000 / (36000 + (12 * 3000) = 36000/72000 = 50.0% reduction
35000 / (35000 + (12 * 3000) = 35000/71000 = 49.3% reduction

3000 * 0.50 = 1500
3000 * 0.493 = 1479

lets say he crits for 4500 and you have 36k armor:

36000 / (36000 + (12 * 4500) = 36000 / 90000 = 40% reduction

This is still a significant amount of reduction, enough to save you from getting oneshotted.
36k should be attainable on a character with a lot of armor nodes using a granite flask.