Is aura snapshotting going to get fixed?

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Shagsbeard wrote:
I really like that they make these exploits public and DON'T punish people for abusing them. ... GGG has made a mistake, and are working to fix it. They've not made the second (more destructive) mistake of blaming the players for the problem.


I disagree.

They stated that this is an exploit, and there are not only no consequences, but instead there a rewards (special MTX rewards, in case of Atziri) for those who exploit.

The message that this sends is that it is fine to exploit and profit from bugs in the game, and that if you play legitimately (as in: you do not use what the developers clearly labeled an exploit), you play at a disadvantage. Polemically put, if you play fairly, you're a fool.

Rules, actual or implied, only mean something if they are enforced. It's the same with RMTing. Barking, but no biting, and as a result it is rampant. The same issue here with the exploits. People follow rules or behavior standards out of fear of consequences. If there are none, they break these rules and standards.

From another perspective, you're right, of course. GGG knew about snapshotting since before summer of last year, and did nothing. (That isn't entirely fair as they did say they were contemplating solutions and that it's not easy to address.) Not only that, they introduced new encounters of a caliber that make it both tempting and rewarding to use this exploit. That makes this a home-made problem.

It's like this with everything: content is added regardless of the state of the engine and its capabilities. If it's cool, it's thrown in, whether or not the engine or the netcode are up for it in their then-present state. (Another prime example is the "fractured" mod for maps.) Paired with limited QA and a lack of public pre-release testing, this is responsible for the "beta vibe" the game occasionally gives. A public test server would be a good idea.

It's not a one-sided issue. I understand GGG's dilemma (damned if they do, damned if they don't), and I appreciate Mark's candidness about it, as well. But still, this all seems rather unfortunate and sub-optimally approached. That said, I do enjoy the game and appreciate GGG's effort and what they accomplish with the resources that they have.
Last edited by Mivo#2486 on May 14, 2014, 2:18:42 PM
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Mivo wrote:
"
Shagsbeard wrote:
I really like that they make these exploits public and DON'T punish people for abusing them. ... GGG has made a mistake, and are working to fix it. They've not made the second (more destructive) mistake of blaming the players for the problem.


I disagree.

They stated that this is an exploit, and there are not only no consequences, but instead there a rewards (special MTX rewards, in case of Atziri) for those who exploit.

The message that this sends is that it is fine to exploit and profit from bugs in the game, and that if you play legitimately (as in: you do not use what the developers clearly labeled an exploit), you play at a disadvantage. Polemically put, if you play fairly, you're a fool.

Rules, actual or implied, only mean something if they are enforced. It's the same with RMTing. Barking, but no biting, and as a result it is rampant. The same issue here with the exploits. People follow rules or behavior standards out of fear of consequences. If there are none, they break these rules and standards.

From another perspective, you're right, of course. GGG knew about snapshotting since before summer of last year, and did nothing. (That isn't entirely fair as they did say they were contemplating solutions and that it's not easy to address.) Not only that, they introduced new encounters of a caliber that make it both tempting and rewarding to use this exploit. That makes this a home-made problem.

It's like this with everything: content is added regardless of the state of the engine and its capabilities. If it's cool, it's thrown in, whether or not the engine or the netcode are up for it in their then-present state. (Another prime example is the "fractured" mod for maps.) Paired with limited QA and a lack of public pre-release testing, this is responsible for the "beta vibe" the game occasionally gives. A public test server would be a good idea.

It's not a one-sided issue. I understand GGG's dilemma (damned if they do, damned if they don't), and I appreciate Mark's candidness about it, as well. But still, this all seems rather unfortunate and sub-optimally approached. That said, I do enjoy the game and appreciate GGG's effort and what they accomplish with the resources that they have.


Woah man. Fracture is my favorite mod.





I do, however, dissapprove of snapshotting.
IGN:Flickfrap
Snapshotting is not a bug it's a feature.
I'm glad you disagree with me. Shows that there's people who still think that cheating is wrong. But... you've got to stop thinking that just because you define the act as cheating... just because the company might (it hasn't)... just because you find it distasteful...

Doesn't mean that you should prohibit others from playing.
But they did label it as a bug and an exploit. That isn't just my interpretation, but their wording. To me, using an unintended exploit or a bug for profit is essentially cheating. But yes, you are right, GGG is the lawmaker, judge and jury, and executioner in one entity, and they deem it acceptable to use exploits. I can respect that (it is their game), but I feel it is problematic and possibly shortsighted for the reasons covered. I don't necessarily blame the players, either.

I do see your point, too, and why it is refreshing that a company "sucks it up" instead of punishing the players for their own oversights. I guess the issue is how long it takes to get it fixed and how passive they seem.
u will still be able to pull off low life with blood magic gems, or if u want more auras a prism guardian too, except with a prism guardian it can be harder to get a decent enough amount of ES since shields are like the primary source of ES, since they gives more ES than shavs and can be further boosted by +ES or defences on shield nodes.
and i dont get ppl who get all up in arms about ppl that use snapshotting.. like why wouldnt u use this to optimize your build if its possible.
blame the game not the players.
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Mivo wrote:
But they did label it as a bug and an exploit. That isn't just my interpretation, but their wording. To me, using an unintended exploit or a bug for profit is essentially cheating. But yes, you are right, GGG is the lawmaker, judge and jury, and executioner in one entity, and they deem it acceptable to use exploits. I can respect that (it is their game), but I feel it is problematic and possibly shortsighted for the reasons covered. I don't necessarily blame the players, either.

I do see your point, too, and why it is refreshing that a company "sucks it up" instead of punishing the players for their own oversights. I guess the issue is how long it takes to get it fixed and how passive they seem.


You should look up "passive" because I think you're using the term incorrectly. GGG is anything but passive.
It's due to be fixed in 1.2
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Shagsbeard wrote:
You should look up "passive" because I think you're using the term incorrectly. GGG is anything but passive.


Context matters. "Passive" in dealing with those who abuse this exploit for profit and obtaining rewards, thus sending the signal that it is perfectly fine to make full use of exploits (approval through inaction), and lethargic in getting snapshotting addressed before it had grown from a marginal issue a year ago into a rampant problem.

It wasn't considered important enough before everyone started using it, if I interpret Mark's post about whether it will be fixed in 1.2 or 1.3 accurately (where he wrote that it isn't his call to decide if this problem is "important enough" to fix in 1.2 or "disruptive enough" to delay until 1.3. That implies that this could have been corrected much earlier already, but was deliberately postponed in order to avoid the community conflict ("whining"). That is just my interpretation of what he wrote, though.

But anyway, hindsight and all that. It's getting fixed in two months (though not the summoner version of snapshotting, if I read what he wrote correctly), and that's all that matters. Like I said, I can appreciate the difficulty, and what else is involved.

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