Shadow Starter Gems revamp please for racing.

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DogFaceNoSpace wrote:
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Legatus1982 wrote:
It's not just the starter gems. There's a lot wrong with the shadow as a class


As topic starter said shadow does really good in endless ledge. Apart from the quest rewards shadow is fine.


Endless ledge is just one small part of the game, and I've never seen shadows do well in races anyways. Provide some data.

The main issue for me is that shadows have consistently been the lowest performing class since invasion started. This is since day 1 and still is the case now last time I looked, even after buffs.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
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Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Shadow start is great and if you want to play ele spectral throw build you can start as shadow. ele spectral throw is one of the most played specs in ambush and invasion as of now. Same goes for trapper. Shadow is best start for trapper. One of the most played specs in nemesis and also played a lot in invasion.

Basically any caster can start as shadow. If you go crit shadow start is simply best and if you do not go crit you can escape the shadow tree by going from mental acuity towards clear mind for a meager two points. which is very point effective.
i use a secret account because i am a politician that doesnt want the NSA to know i play poe.
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DogFaceNoSpace wrote:
Shadow start is great and if you want to play ele spectral throw build you can start as shadow. ele spectral throw is one of the most played specs in ambush and invasion as of now. Same goes for trapper. Shadow is best start for trapper. One of the most played specs in nemesis and also played a lot in invasion.

Basically any caster can start as shadow. If you go crit shadow start is simply best and if you do not go crit you can escape the shadow tree by going from mental acuity towards clear mind for a meager two points. which is very point effective.


Idk what else to tell you other than the data has shadows as both the lowest number in top 100 and highest mortality rate top 100 in invasion, and has been that way since invasion started.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
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Legatus1982 wrote:
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DogFaceNoSpace wrote:
Shadow start is great and if you want to play ele spectral throw build you can start as shadow. ele spectral throw is one of the most played specs in ambush and invasion as of now. Same goes for trapper. Shadow is best start for trapper. One of the most played specs in nemesis and also played a lot in invasion.

Basically any caster can start as shadow. If you go crit shadow start is simply best and if you do not go crit you can escape the shadow tree by going from mental acuity towards clear mind for a meager two points. which is very point effective.


Idk what else to tell you other than the data has shadows as both the lowest number in top 100 and highest mortality rate top 100 in invasion, and has been that way since invasion started.


Doesn't matter. People just copy whatever build is popular on the forums or reddit or youtube. Same like with detonated dead. It was probably one of the strongest (top 5) builds for a really long time but nobody played it only bobslop.

tl;dr unpopular =/= bad
i use a secret account because i am a politician that doesnt want the NSA to know i play poe.
Popularity has nothing to do with mortality rate, and if the class is underused it means there is a problem.

Furthermore, unless you can prove there is actually a lower total and not just lower showing in top 100, your argument isn't applicable anyways. We don't have access to that data, ggg would have to provide totals.

Based on the mortality rate it's logical to deduce that the top 100 showing is lower due to underperformance, but it's true that it isn't given, it's just the best we can go on with the current data.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on May 15, 2014, 11:42:09 AM
I would just like to point out these suggestions are strictly for racing. The Shadow tree is very good for crit builds, and right now crit builds rank among one of the best builds end game right now. The tree however is terrible for racing. My post reflects on how terrible shadows are for racing due to them getting terrible gem rewards.


Its evident that shadow is weaker in racing because if you look at the signature records you will notice that not 1 shadow had even hit 32, and only 2 shadows had hit 31. The 10 point reward was 32.

In descent champions not one shadow has even hit 26 yet, and I think shadows have only hit 25 like 5 times out of probably 100+ descent champion races. 26 again is the top bracket.

Yes races are meant to be between class vs class, but when a class can't even hit the highest point bracket there's something flawed with the point system or the class.
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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Real_Wolf wrote:
More and more I am feeling that the gem rewards need a complete rehaul.

They should have ALL gem rewards available across all classes.
When it comes to the earliest gem rewards — Normal Hillock in particular — I emphatically disagree with this. Starting with an alternate class, getting to Lioneye's Watch, and muling a gem over only takes a couple minutes, but can be a solid race strategy with an interesting drawback. (As we saw earlier, I have zero sympathy for the "every class should have Molten Strike" argument.)

On the other hand, the idea of rerolling to gain access to, say, Melee Physical Damage as a quest reward is patently absurd. So I don't think your point is completely invalid.

What we should see is a steadily increasing diversity of gem rewards as characters progress. The earliest gem rewards should either be class exclusives or really close to it, with a limited number of options; the Merciless gem rewards should be fairly uniform across all classes, with a large number of options available.


I agree in that I don't think that every class should have access to every gem all the time, but the selection should be expanded from the limite of 6, and the selections should be available for more than 1 instance. Wanting to gems that a class gets at brutus and then never show up against. Example. shock nova shows up once total (per wiki). Good luck if you wanted tempest shield for the build too.
When I play Shadow, mule Ice Nova. When I play Witch, mule Fire Trap.

It works as it is, but yeah, would save some time if all were immediately available.
177
Horrible 'starter' gems, remember.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eArgvogeuQU#t=01m20s

Spark good for races? Whaaaa??
You mean ice nova right, I'd hope so.
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Rithz wrote:
I would just like to point out these suggestions are strictly for racing. The Shadow tree is very good for crit builds, and right now crit builds rank among one of the best builds end game right now. The tree however is terrible for racing. My post reflects on how terrible shadows are for racing due to them getting terrible gem rewards.


Its evident that shadow is weaker in racing because if you look at the signature records you will notice that not 1 shadow had even hit 32, and only 2 shadows had hit 31. The 10 point reward was 32.

In descent champions not one shadow has even hit 26 yet, and I think shadows have only hit 25 like 5 times out of probably 100+ descent champion races. 26 again is the top bracket.

Yes races are meant to be between class vs class, but when a class can't even hit the highest point bracket there's something flawed with the point system or the class.


I don't know what crit builds you're talking about that are wrecking invasion or long races, but again, the stats show shadows are the worst class in invasion. Highest death ratio, lowest number in top 100.

I'm not a racer myself but I haven't seen shadows doing well in races either (I have done some), so you're right on that point.

It is very important people understand this. The buffs to the shadow tree have not improved shadow standings for invasion at all.

EDIT: So checked the stats again, there are now only 4 shadows in the invasion top 100 and 1 is dead. Better mortality rate due to the other dead shadow being bumped off the list, less total shadows. Still 25% death ratio.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on May 18, 2014, 10:55:33 AM

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