Anyone else notice the imbalance?

I was just thinking about recent videos of Uber kills, and the top builds out there and am starting to realize that the skill tree is strongly unbalanced towards daggers. If you think about it, there are around ~ 20 REALLY STRONG dagger/crit combo nodes. With a lowlife CoE and Shav there is no other weapon type that can even come close to the DPS output of a dagger. There is no build, no item combo, no amount of skill that will ever allow a character to be half as strong as one who uses a dagger. Shouldn't 2handed weapons do more damage?

When a one handed dagger is stronger than any other two handed weapon in the game, I see that as imbalanced. For those who haven't seen, check out Fyndel's build (750k dps). Sure with a mirrored corsair you could probably reach 100-200k but still not even remotely close to what a dagger can do. Daggers have high base crit chance, good damage, they scale insanely well with crit and spell damage (lowlife + shav + crown of eyes) and to top it off they are the easiest to gain more crit modifiers for.

I'm wondering if GGG has any plans to address this in the tree in the future? As things stand now, everyone and every build should be using a dagger, whether its Spectral throw, dual strike, double strike, whatever.

PS - I should note I'm a lowlife CoE + Shav wander and it is very strong, but I have realized that dagger ST is just on another level
IGN - Xukai

Mirror Service - /1046531
The way dagger builds are mostly crit based i kinda agree with you about them doing to much dmg then really need them to be tuned down a bit especially for PVP but Fyndels build is on standard any ways sent all the gear he has is basicly Best in slot with them mostly being legacy items. But that i mean most the neck and weps ha has can no longer roll past a high crit mult.

Also throwing this out i only have like 75 k dps no where near his build..

not saying im butt hurt just saying he is OP....
Last edited by hobokiller21 on May 9, 2014 8:15 PM
I guess what I'm saying is this:



I believe I have pretty solid gear as a wander, but without changing a thing, if I simply switched to a dagger and respecced into a few dagger nodes, my DPS would be SO MUCH HIGHER. I don't really think one weapon should be better in every way than another weapon type. There is honestly no downside, just switch to dagger and enjoy life, amirite?
IGN - Xukai

Mirror Service - /1046531
the problem with daggers is just that they don't come with a disadvantage.

their low base damage doesnt matter because their scaling with +adds physical damage is the same as other weapons and crit multi works as it does with any other type of weapon.

the whole itemization is just a first draft of a real itemization but it has been kept this way for a long time.
There has to be the best crit weapon, lets face it.
And the dagger design itself is great, high base crit, decent attack speed and the bigest damage span in the game (read low end to high end span). Critting with a dagger can be hard to overcome without a vaal pact because of this damage range, top end crits can 1 shot sometimes.

The big problem is how easy you can scale crit multiplier, there are builds reaching well into the 800 crit multiplier which can be insane.

I don't think you can complain tho, daggers are the weapons which you have to build extensively around.
Last edited by Mannoth on May 9, 2014 9:01 PM
A wand has a higher crit range then a dagger do...just saying.

SVD pretty much covered it.

Daggers itself and their nodes (and respective tree area where they exist with other raw crit nodes) are fine.

The rest in comparion is just shit. Specially when you take (maybe the strongest) support gem into account - coc. So it´s not daggers beeing imbalanced. It´s all other weapon designes and their respective nodes, tree placement and support abilities, lacks the damage potential, the fluff and the good shit. I know people will now throw in specific examples to show me wrong but this is a old concern and it´s talked about since closed beta.

That said i demand with the power of nerdcore a rework of all weapons, their nodes and respectiv supports. hu3hu3hu

edit: start with sceptres and staves
What can never be lent or earned?
Somewhat, that devours everyone and everything:
A tree that rush. A bird that sings. It eat bones and smite the hardest stones.
Masticate every sword. Shatters every shrine. It defeat mighty kings and carry mountains on lightly wings.
What am i?
Last edited by Spysong192 on May 9, 2014 9:50 PM
"
Spysong192 wrote:
Daggers itself and their nodes (and respective tree area where they exist with other raw crit nodes) are fine.

The rest in comparion is just shit. Specially when you take (maybe the strongest) support gem into account - coc. So it´s not daggers beeing imbalanced. It´s all other weapon designes and their respective nodes, tree placement and support abilities, lacks the damage potential, the fluff and the good shit. I know people will now throw in specific examples to show me wrong but this is a old concern and it´s talked about since closed beta.

That said i demand with the power of nerdcore a rework of all weapons, their nodes and respectiv supports. hu3hu3hu

edit: start with sceptres and staves



WHile I agree with a rework of staves/scepters, there's guys easily reaching 200k-300k with wands, and I'm not outrageously far from that either. And that is without taking a single wand node. The fact is though, leave daggers alone, the weapons themselves are fine, but when you look at those passives, they are just too strong IMO. Like others have said, HUGE crit multi and crit chance from passives makes them imbalanced. Whether you're melee, ranged, caster, if you switch to crit dagger your character will become better without exception.
IGN - Xukai

Mirror Service - /1046531
"
trav_dawg wrote:


WHile I agree with a rework of staves/scepters, there's guys easily reaching 200k-300k with wands, and I'm not outrageously far from that either. And that is without taking a single wand node. The fact is though, leave daggers alone, the weapons themselves are fine, but when you look at those passives, they are just too strong IMO. Like others have said, HUGE crit multi and crit chance from passives makes them imbalanced. Whether you're melee, ranged, caster, if you switch to crit dagger your character will become better without exception.


Well i believe that wands/bows in general are also in a fine enough spot in general. BUT, when we dig why daggers are superior to wands it´s because daggers are no more a exclusive melee weapon but will be spammed with ST+coc to reach it´s highest DPS as a ranged setup now. Correct me if i´m wrong here in this theoretical enviroment. A wand itself is a ranged weapon but isn´t supported by a skill like ST that allowes fast multi hit spam through coc.

So in my opinion it´s not only the nodes it´s a mix of everything. The base weapon, the useable skills with those weapons, the combination now with appropriate tree nodes and the enhancement through support mechanics.
What can never be lent or earned?
Somewhat, that devours everyone and everything:
A tree that rush. A bird that sings. It eat bones and smite the hardest stones.
Masticate every sword. Shatters every shrine. It defeat mighty kings and carry mountains on lightly wings.
What am i?
Non crit builds max 50k dps
Crit builds 700k +

Strange things are happening!
Crown needs to be nerfed, and not make it legendary.
That will break the game.

Cheers.
IG name BaneNL

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