Are the Bandits actually worth it?

Oak Normal
If you have ~200% increased life, this provides ~120 hitpoints.
If there are 8% life nodes you skipped, exchanging this reward for an 8% node feels pretty much equal.

Kraytin Normal
There's so many resists in the tree, many nodes with higher values than 8%.
And most players don't even take those, they want the resists covered with gear alone.

Alira Normal
Would never even consider taking this.



Oak/Kraytin Cruel
18% damage or 8% attackspeed, in most builds this is like one more semi-good notable.
Ok, but not amazing.

Alira Cruel
4% castspeed? Really? There's 3% castspeed nodes all over the tree.



Charges in Merciless
These are the only ones I feel really worth taking, as they actually add something I would not get otherwise.
Getting additional charges on a build that focusses heavily on Frenzy, Blood Rage, Immortal Call or Power Charge Crit stuff, it is obviously worth it.
In those cases this is worth more than a skillpoint just from DpS/Survivability alone, and worth far more if you add in the "travelling points" to collect charges in the tree.
At least one kind of those charges seems to be involved in every build.

---

I would prefer the Bandit Rewards to be more significant.
Make it a real choice.


Make it so that I want to help them and that killing them is just an alternative for weird builds that somehow find no use in any of them.

You could almost double the values in Normal/Cruel.

So, you're saying oak in normal is worth it, the cruels are worth it, and the mercs are worth it.

Move to pointless thread subforum, plz

You don't get it.

What I want, is "make me feel I made a choice". For this, the rewards have to be...
1) equal, they are not atm
2) way better than a skillpoint

Make my Marauder want to help both Oak and Kraytin, and really thinking twice about which one to kill. It's just too easy now...

In Example...

Normal:
Oak: +80 Life
Kraytin: +24% damage
... I would have to make a decision, not just blindly kill all/all but Oak.

Cruel:
Oak: +30% armor
Kraytin: +12% attackspeed
... I would have to make a decision, not just blindly kill all/all but Oak.

i choose passive/passive/charges mostly because of the flexibility, and having to change 1 bandit choice at most when respeccing is just an economic decision, since the recipe for the book is far too expensive in my opinion. effect of bandit choice is overrated for normal/cruel imo

the cruel reward is actually pretty ok for attacking builds, u have to consider not all of your phys nodes provide this DPS increase, but it will change with level ranges u reach, sometimes passive is better because u can reach certain final nodes, often 18%phys or 8% AS are better because u already got all good nodes and would have to travel some nodes to reach good ones.

€ now read ur 2nd post, making the changes would only favor the bandit choices and force into more respec - im against this ;P

Okay, and then every other person who doesn't want those two rewards chooses skillpoints. Sure, Normal Kraityn/Alira aren't good rewards. For some reason, itemization isn't accounted for in these choices, while passives are. 40 flat life generally is going to the better option compared to a skillpoint; if you're getting 250% life on the tree, why would you skip an extra 140 life for what is more than likely either going to be a 90 life increase in a node or a slight lead on your build?

8% all resistance is great when you don't expect to have decent gear, but as it is, getting the gear isn't difficult if you understand the concept of tradeoffs.

The mana... Well, as a rule, you only get as much mana as you need, really. Couple that fact with the rolls of mana on equipment and you have no chance of beating out even a mana node.

For the cruel rewards, it tends to be a fairly clear cut line and is almost the set of rewards used by players. If you go a physical build or use EK, 18% physical damage is better than almost any node you'll find. For attack speed, 8% even beats out the average speed from the Berserking circle! Cast speed is, admittedly, a little low at 4%, but it still beats out grabbing any of the passives short of the three sets of nodes that equal it in the witch/shadow section. At best, it probably could do with becoming 5% cast speed.

Realistically, the rewards tend not to be difficult choices. They almost always help a particular group of builds, and if your build cannot benefit from any, you take the passive point. My physical crit archer naturally takes Oak/Oak/Kraityn because I am life based, do physical damage, and use Frenzy as one of my main skills. For my elemental shadow, I get Oak/Kraityn/Passive because he's another life build , who relies on flat elemental damage with quick attacks, and doesn't use charges.

As for making decisions... How would you make it so it's a choice for multiple classes? Sure, your examples work for a Marauder. Why would that become a choice for my witch though? I don't care about armor or attack speed. It's still cast speed all the way.

"

8% Increased Max Life is only equal to 120 Life if you have 1500 Base Life. A level 100 Character doesn't even hit 900 Base (842 to be exact), so you need a ton of Life from gear to make that a valid claim. Less flat Life and more Increased Life further skews it towards Oak's favour, and with the dwindling amount of 8% Life nodes...

Of course you have a ton of life on your gear. And strength.
Oak Normal is imho only interesting if you already grabbed each and every single life node.

---

I'm quite sure you will, whatever I propose, find builds where it doesn't work as intended.

And it is especially hard to find a way as you have to stick to the idea of Oak-Str, Kraityn-Dex, Alira-Int...

But I'll try anyway... ;)

Maybe (numbers randomly put there)...

Normal:
Oak: 60 Life
Alira: 10% ES
Kraityn: 18% Damage (not just physical)

Cruel:
Oak: 1% health regen, 20% armor
Alira: 40% mana regen, 4% castspeed
Kraityn: 12% Attackspeed

Then at least CI also has to choose in Normal... ;)
Still have no idea what to offer a Summoner... ;)

"

Normal:
Oak: 60 Life
Alira: 10% ES
Kraityn: 18% Damage (not just physical)

Cruel:
Oak: 1% health regen, 20% armor
Alira: 40% mana regen, 4% castspeed
Kraityn: 12% Attackspeed

How about no. Those are ridiculous for the value of 1 skillpoint. I don't think you're considering point efficiency. When you travel 3 points for 8 -> 8 -> 18 HP You're actually getting 5.6% HP per node which is way worse than getting those 6% HP nodes at scion for example that take no travel. This is an example of how point efficiency works.

To clarify things, I'll list the current rewards and what I think of them.

Normal:

Oak: 40 life. It's phenomenal and a must have for any life build. It is one of the best HP passives efficiency wise in the game

Alira: 40 mana. This is terrible. 10% ES is actually a good suggestion. Another one is 40% mana regen.

Kraityn: 8% all res. If going for all res then 12% all res is quite good as a choice. People often take those nodes. Your suggestion is beyond overpowered and does not exist anywhere on the tree. That would become the default choice for ALL builds(except summoner).

cruel:

Oak: 18% physical. This is stronger than most physical nodes and quite appropriate. It's picked often even. I actually consider it stronger than your suggestion except for builds like RF.

Alira: 4 castspeed. this should be 6 castspeed after the spellcaster buff. That would make it better than the several 4% castspeed nodes easily available. Your suggestion is easily overpowered and beats any passive point.

Kraityn: 8% IAS. This is probably the best cruel reward and practically unmatched on the tree. Beserking is now only 6% IAS per node. The only node that matches it efficiency wise is the 1st ranger node(which is followed by a 20% acc node which is rarely ideal). So this is already quite strong.

All merciless ones are quite reasonable.

i would prefer the quest rewards to be more significant in general. they all suck except for the skill point rewards.

- a skill gem? who needs them (except for rare ones) after a few weeks of playing...
- a flask? seriously?!
- a rare?! omfg....

That little part where you say "after a few weeks of playing..." is the answer.

In a race, you damn well want that quicksilver and those skill gems. At the beginning of a league, you'd rage if you couldn't get gems you need. At best, I'd be fine with having an option between gems and rares rather than later difficulties only giving rares.