Path of Summoner and Searing Bond.

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reboticon wrote:

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woodyfly wrote:

I thought summoners got nerfed wat

Bms got nerfed. They were never necessary.

lol what. Bms were 99% of summoners damage

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woodyfly wrote:

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reboticon wrote:

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woodyfly wrote:

I thought summoners got nerfed wat

Bms got nerfed. They were never necessary.

lol what. Bms were 99% of summoners damage

Not even close.

A summoner can run just as fast with Flame Sentinels and Evangelists as long as he chains Flesh Offering.

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reboticon wrote:

You are using the wrong spectres/zombie set up/ snapshotting, then. My buddy can clear 77s and 78s while I AFK. The only annoying part is that shrine piety and academy boss WILL knock out some of his summons and it takes a while for him to get them all put together again, so gotta save boss for last.

First, what you say is true, for the most.

Second, I can do that which you speak as well, but here's the skinny;

It's as someone else stated, the gear to effectiveness ratio.
A well optimized 'player' build will well surpass a summoner, but a summoner has the main advantage it has in every game they exist;

You are not the target.

If you fully understand that, the implications are massive.
For one, you will never lose, as long as you have summons, and can dodge the odd erroneous attack. You are not the primary target.

That is where summoner excels. It's nowhere near the best damage, defense, etc nothing, but the player is a non-target for 90% of the game, so a smart player can use that in a myriad of ways. Most use it to MF, or have an 'easy' time. This again, does not make it superior to player builds, it's just an advantage a pet character has. They don't work without it, so it's not something you can change easily.

To elaborate, Devourers, and the jumping chimerals are absolute hell with summoner, because they completely ignore a summoners unique advantage; player targeting.

This is what it is. This also doesn't make it OP. Just think if you could run a player build, while nothing targets you.


Sidenote: The same thing is somewhat going on with Searing Bond. It's not that it's too strong, it's just ridiculously simple. Summoner can be the most complex class, but most just use it in the easiest possible ways because that's really what players want; Easy steamrolling. With it's unique advantage of non-target player, you can have that.

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gr00grams wrote:

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reboticon wrote:

You are using the wrong spectres/zombie set up/ snapshotting, then. My buddy can clear 77s and 78s while I AFK. The only annoying part is that shrine piety and academy boss WILL knock out some of his summons and it takes a while for him to get them all put together again, so gotta save boss for last.

First, what you say is true, for the most.

Second, I can do that which you speak as well, but here's the skinny;

It's as someone else stated, the gear to effectiveness ratio.
A well optimized 'player' build will well surpass a summoner, but a summoner has the main advantage it has in every game they exist;

You are not the target.

If you fully understand that, the implications are massive.
For one, you will never lose, as long as you have summons, and can dodge the odd erroneous attack. You are not the primary target.

That is where summoner excels. It's nowhere near the best damage, defense, etc nothing, but the player is a non-target for 90% of the game, so a smart player can use that in a myriad of ways. Most use it to MF, or have an 'easy' time. This again, does not make it superior to player builds, it's just an advantage a pet character has. They don't work without it, so it's not something you can change easily.

To elaborate, Devourers, and the jumping chimerals are absolute hell with summoner, because they completely ignore a summoners unique advantage; player targeting.

This is what it is. This also doesn't make it OP. Just think if you could run a player build, while nothing targets you.


Sidenote: The same thing is somewhat going on with Searing Bond. It's not that it's too strong, it's just ridiculously simple. Summoner can be the most complex class, but most just use it in the easiest possible ways because that's really what players want; Easy steamrolling. With it's unique advantage of non-target player, you can have that.

It's a huge advantage following the changes to leech. There are actually very few "player builds" that can solo most maps and do map bosses in the mid 80s. Summoner can. It's currently one of the "best" builds. You will have ~4 months to enjoy it before they decide to shift the meta again. BoR wasn't godmode, but they wanted a meta change.

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reboticon wrote:

It's a huge advantage following the changes to leech. There are actually very few "player builds" that can solo most maps and do map bosses in the mid 80s. Summoner can. It's currently one of the "best" builds. You will have ~4 months to enjoy it before they decide to shift the meta again. BoR wasn't godmode, but they wanted a meta change.

I actually started in Domination, and played one all through Dom, it's currently 87 in Standard now.

And yes, it's a huge advantage, I will agree, but this is a result of GGG's 'balancing'. This is not a 'summoner is OP' problem.

I will also agree you're probably right;

Instead of increasing the cheap options for players, they just nerf the shit out of the ones that do exist.

Spectral Throw is a perfect example. It was never a great build endgame, but it was cheap, and got you to the end-game relatively easy.

We are also seeing this in massive effect with Searing Bond.
If they 'fix' bond, everyone will probably gravitate to summoner, because it's the next cheapest, easiest option.

This will not work in the long run, especially in temporary leagues. Players are pretty much forced into whatever is 'cheapest and works' for these leagues, because of the extreme RNG/time investment required otherwise.

The only problem I fear, is how would you fix this? The advantage is the player is a non-target, but if you make all the creatures instantly attack the player, the build is not nerfed, it's effectively fucked. This is how summoners operate in games. Nerfing gear has no effect otherwise; you get by without gear, this is part two of the advantage. What do they do? Make devourers a spawn on every map?

Well, we did mention Searing Bond, and the one-week race showed how strong it is. I believe they deliberately left it untouched.

I am the buddy the OP is talking about while i don't agree that summoner is "OP" in the generic meaning of the word it is very strong. But the strength comes with expensive gear( BoR, 5/6L shavs, midnight bargain x2, mon'trugral's, Prism Gaurdian, etc.). But when it comes to maps summoner is 1 of the best for speed no matter the map mods. I never used Bms i only ran 9 zombies 3 evangilists because in my mind the spectres were just for support(3l'ed with life and added fire). The only map bosses i cant do are crem and acadamy. And the only bosses i cant sleep(afk without self casting descecrate and bone offering) in are shrine piety, temple piety, courtyard bosses, and palace dom. But for what u invest in a summoner u get the most bang for your buck. With the expensive gear listed above i was running temp league mf in standard ( sadimas goldwyrm perandus and mf flask) and i still had almost 5k es, which is more then enough to survive almost anything in a map if u know how to handle the situation. On top of 98/400+ mf i ran 7 auras(woulda ran 8 but my shavs was only 5l)(purity of fire/light/cold/elements, grace, disc, vit, haste would of been my 8th) on top of the 70% buff from my skill tree my minions are very strong. So to wrap it up in my mind summoner is just strong not OP if BMs were still around i would completely agree with the OP label since they completely broke the game from what i read.

Edit: also the 1 big dissability to summoner is when u lose a zombie depending on which zombie it is could cost u a good chunk of time since u may have to resummon all 9 and your spectres.

Nobody is gonna be playing Searing Bond outside of leveling (which it is very broken for). It doesn't scale well at all.

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Mizh wrote:

Nobody is gonna be playing Searing Bond outside of leveling (which it is very broken for). It doesn't scale well at all.

Nice necro .