Monster Health Scaling in Parties Revisited

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Fruz wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Short of having several people with top tier builds or a single person abusing the shit out of shavs and crown, there is almost no way for a 6 man group (even a solid one) to clear faster than a single top tier build solo.

2-3 man group is actually much more feasible because there is less 'overload' damage and less chance of duplicate un-synergistic builds.

6 man groups are mind crushingly slow but magnitudes safer than solo.

But since groups can much more easily run higher level maps ( and more important : they can sustain them ) than solo, solos fall far behind for most of them in term of xp gain past some point.

Here's the fix for that:

• Pressing the button on the Eternal Laboratory device causes all portals to divert to a new instance of the same map.
• The system I previously recommended for party bonuses is used, with IIR, currency-specific IIQ, and the unique-monster IIQ all applying to maps. (Keep in mind that increased mob density already means more map drops per map.)
• The base map drop rate would be decreased, due to the above bullet points essentially multiplying it by 6. This would make maps themselves a better source for maps, but provide less maps during Merciless farming.

This would allow a solo player to run the same map six times, vastly improving his map sustainment; group players would see the same number of map drops as solo.

I know monster health should be a part of a larger discussion, but I honestly am only recommending a reduction in monster health scaling is all. It's a pretty simple request with a reasonable explanation.

EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED. :-p

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Verminoth wrote:

I know monster health should be a part of a larger discussion, but I honestly am only recommending a reduction in monster health scaling is all. It's a pretty simple request with a reasonable explanation.

EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED. :-p

for even easier yawn-inducing faceroll experience! if anything monster dmg should increase with party size by 5% with current hp scaling left intact

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Short of having several people with top tier builds or a single person abusing the shit out of shavs and crown, there is almost no way for a 6 man group (even a solid one) to clear faster than a single top tier build solo.

2-3 man group is actually much more feasible because there is less 'overload' damage and less chance of duplicate un-synergistic builds.

6 man groups are mind crushingly slow but magnitudes safer than solo.

But since groups can much more easily run higher level maps ( and more important : they can sustain them ) than solo, solos fall far behind for most of them in term of xp gain past some point.

Here's the fix for that:

• Pressing the button on the Eternal Laboratory device causes all portals to divert to a new instance of the same map.
• The system I previously recommended for party bonuses is used, with IIR, currency-specific IIQ, and the unique-monster IIQ all applying to maps. (Keep in mind that increased mob density already means more map drops per map.)
• The base map drop rate would be decreased, due to the above bullet points essentially multiplying it by 6. This would make maps themselves a better source for maps, but provide less maps during Merciless farming.

This would allow a solo player to run the same map six times, vastly improving his map sustainment; group players would see the same number of map drops as solo.

Appealing but i think this would destroy group play and GGG would never allow that.

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Nephalim wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

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Fruz wrote:

But since groups can much more easily run higher level maps ( and more important : they can sustain them ) than solo, solos fall far behind for most of them in term of xp gain past some point.

Here's the fix for that:

• Pressing the button on the Eternal Laboratory device causes all portals to divert to a new instance of the same map.
• The system I previously recommended for party bonuses is used, with IIR, currency-specific IIQ, and the unique-monster IIQ all applying to maps. (Keep in mind that increased mob density already means more map drops per map.)
• The base map drop rate would be decreased, due to the above bullet points essentially multiplying it by 6. This would make maps themselves a better source for maps, but provide less maps during Merciless farming.

This would allow a solo player to run the same map six times, vastly improving his map sustainment; group players would see the same number of map drops as solo.

Appealing but i think this would destroy group play and GGG would never allow that.

How the fuck is:

• my proposal destructive to group play?
• destroying group play a good thing?

I take that back, I have no idea what you proposed.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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thinkingofaname wrote:

In fact there are so many of those, that people often advertise something like "xx map, no discharge/flicker/coc etc.." to ensure those who too much dps do not come to the maps. If you or your group find you running maps too slowly, then its YOUR fault, not the games.

So basically, if your dps sucks, it's your fault for not using flicker discharge or coc?
I agree with most of what you said but some people don't want to use cookie cutter builds in this terribly balanced game.

There are lot of ways to do very high amount of damage (not talking about mirror gear either), enough to overcome all the entire "penalty" of grouping. What I describe is but a few examples. I also do not agree with your concept of "cookie cutter", all of those builds (especially coc) were some of the most innovating builds at the time, just because people are sheeps and copy paste other people's build do not make the original build cookie cutter in anyway.

If you can't do high damage in this game, it is 100% your own fault, no one else. Doing enough damage is NEVER a problem for any competent player in a party setting, you only need to know how skills interact with each other. Not dying, on the other hand, is a HUGE problem even for the most experience players. That's why top builds are aegis blockers or blenders, not CoC, flicker, discharge etc..

Party play already solved a large part of that survivability issue, on top of providing better net gain, and some people still complain its not enough....try playing solo in 75+ maps then we can talk

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Short of having several people with top tier builds or a single person abusing the shit out of shavs and crown, there is almost no way for a 6 man group (even a solid one) to clear faster than a single top tier build solo.

2-3 man group is actually much more feasible because there is less 'overload' damage and less chance of duplicate un-synergistic builds.

6 man groups are mind crushingly slow but magnitudes safer than solo.

But since groups can much more easily run higher level maps ( and more important : they can sustain them ) than solo, solos fall far behind for most of them in term of xp gain past some point.

Here's the fix for that:

• Pressing the button on the Eternal Laboratory device causes all portals to divert to a new instance of the same map.
• The system I previously recommended for party bonuses is used, with IIR, currency-specific IIQ, and the unique-monster IIQ all applying to maps. (Keep in mind that increased mob density already means more map drops per map.)
• The base map drop rate would be decreased, due to the above bullet points essentially multiplying it by 6. This would make maps themselves a better source for maps, but provide less maps during Merciless farming.

This would allow a solo player to run the same map six times, vastly improving his map sustainment; group players would see the same number of map drops as solo.

So if one normally budgets 15 mins to solo 1 map they would need to budget 15*6=90 mins instead? I don't have an opinion one way or the other, just clarifying. Seems like a long session for a "minimum" length activity though ("minimum" under a certain set of assumption).

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

So if one normally budgets 15 mins to solo 1 map they would need to budget 15*6=90 mins instead? I don't have an opinion one way or the other, just clarifying. Seems like a long session for a "minimum" length activity though ("minimum" under a certain set of assumption).

Good point; it's a problem I've previously considered but I'm not quite sure how to solve. Perhaps the last Laboratory instance you enter gets "saved" when you log off?

I skimmed the thread. @Scrotie the major criticism of grouping in POE depends on who you talk to. What you suggested sounds good, I like it, but it fails to address the main grouping concern of a large portion of the community. That concern being the disparity in return on currency invested in mapping. More specifically, the disparity in loot return for currency invested when playing in a 6man map group versus anything else, especially solo.

While you can be more efficient in terms of pace in solo you will never be more efficient in terms of wealth accumulation. That is all the more important when high level content is gated off by scarcity. Ideally return on currency in mapping and pace would be similar if not identical whether solo or party.