[SUGGESTION] Aura Only Skill Bar

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CentauriSoldier wrote:

You can't "miss out" on a resource you don't need, that makes no sense. Not using auras and having an aura bar available is not going to ruin anyone's build or cause them to be disadvantaged as you're claiming.

Players being disadvantaged is not what I'm claiming. I'm not really "claiming" anything at all, this is not a balance issue, it's just my preference for the design of the game.

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CentauriSoldier wrote:

There is no set limit to the number of auras I can cast, so why not create a simple UI panel that lets me do, more quickly, the same operation I do now?

There is a limit. The limit is, under normal circumstances, 24 - the number of gem slots available for use. The same limit on the number of any other kind of skill you can use.

It's not about "you should lose this because I don't use it", it's about consistency, about not giving certain skills exemptions from the limits already built into the game.

So you run eight auras and that's a bit inconvenient. My response is: maybe don't run eight auras, if it's a problem for you? It's your choice to do that, and you made that choice knowing it's not convenient to do so, so I don't really think you get a free pass on responsibility there. I mean, it's incredibly inconvenient to cast 15 active skills in rotation, so you know what people do? They choose not to do that. They could; it's possible. But it's not convenient given the UI design.

Now, having brought that up, it's perhaps worth mentioning that if I had my way, I'd remove the limit of eight active slots altogether, so that it is equally possible to run 15 auras or 15 active skills if you want to. I think it's a far more elegant solution to have just the gem slot limit and let people decide on their own tradeoffs between skill power and skill number (via support gems), than to have two different, overlapping limits on the same basic thing. But if GGG isn't going to add that, my preference is for unity and consistency in the existing system.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

bout "you should lose this because I don't use it", it's about consistency, about not giving certain skills exemptions from the limits already built into the game.

Auras are already exempt from the limits normally built in. You can activate auras and then switch out the skill and activate another skill. Auras are already special. what he is asking for is a better method for activating auras than using one skill slot to activate one, then swapping it for another aura, activating that, swapping it for another aura, activating that... etc.

This is ONLY a quality of life improvement, and doesn't chance mechanically what players are able to do in any way in terms of number of active skills. It wouldn't grant any special exception.

Auras are already inconsistent by design with other skills - might as well design the UI to interface with them the way they are treated mechanically by the game.

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I think a more elegant solution would be to allow us to activate auras anywhere e.g. in town. (maybe via the inventory screen somehow) and have them persist through logouts/deaths etc, rather than have them function as pseudo-skills. That is an actual mechanics change, though, which is probably more work than it is worth to implement.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

There is a limit. The limit is, under normal circumstances, 24 - the number of gem slots available for use. The same limit on the number of any other kind of skill you can use.

You can get technical if you like and attempt to sidestep my meaning but I think it was clear that I was referring to a limit in the sense of slot availability.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

So you run eight auras and that's a bit inconvenient. My response is: maybe don't run eight auras, if it's a problem for you? It's your choice to do that, and you made that choice knowing it's not convenient to do so, so I don't really think you get a free pass on responsibility there. I mean, it's incredibly inconvenient to cast 15 active skills in rotation, so you know what people do? They choose not to do that. They could; it's possible. But it's not convenient given the UI design.

It is not inconvenient for me to run eight auras. Clearly you missed that point too. The inconvenience lies in having to switch items in and out of the skill slots to activate and deactivate the auras. As far as responsibility goes, I am not "shifting the responsibility" of my build onto the devs or anyone else for that matter, I merely making a suggestion for a UI change. How you ever inferred that I was is beyond me. Besides, telling someone to change their build to nullify their suggestion (which defeats the purpose of making the suggestion in the first place) makes no sense at all. You're saying that instead of making suggestions, people should just change their setup so they would never need to make suggestions. Feel the sarcasm when I say, "Great advice!". Why would there even be a suggestions forum if the devs weren't interested in suggestions?

If you're still unclear as to the nature and intent of this thread, please reread it and also read Hypn0tyk's post as well as it clarifies it further.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Now, having brought that up, it's perhaps worth mentioning that if I had my way, I'd remove the limit of eight active slots altogether, so that it is equally possible to run 15 auras or 15 active skills if you want to. I think it's a far more elegant solution to have just the gem slot limit and let people decide on their own tradeoffs between skill power and skill number (via support gems), than to have two different, overlapping limits on the same basic thing. But if GGG isn't going to add that, my preference is for unity and consistency in the existing system.

Well, be that as it may, skill limitation is a completely different topic, worthy of it's own thread. I would have to give that some thought before I spoke further on it but perhaps you should create a thread for that. I'm sure there would be a lot support for your suggestion. Why it's a different topic is because what I'm suggesting has absolutely nothing to do with skill limitations. My suggestion is purely UI and convenience of use.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

maybe don't run eight auras

Dude, if you've ever grouped with someone who runs 8 maxed+2 leveled auras, you wouldn't be thinking that.

We should be encouraging party builds and looking for ways to make playing support characters more convenient, not being a dick to them.

Just sayin'...

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Now, having brought that up, it's perhaps worth mentioning that if I had my way, I'd remove the limit of eight active slots altogether, so that it is equally possible to run 15 auras or 15 active skills if you want to. I think it's a far more elegant solution to have just the gem slot limit and let people decide on their own tradeoffs between skill power and skill number (via support gems), than to have two different, overlapping limits on the same basic thing.

This is a completely different topic altogether but yes, I do agree any limitation at all is kind of stupid. It would not be the nightmare GGG seems to believe, given the majority of people would still elect to only use as many skills as they have item slots due to the nature of support gems and wanting to link up as many as possible.

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But if GGG isn't going to add that, my preference is for unity and consistency in the existing system.

Your preference is already an illusion because as Hypn0tyk said:

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Hypn0tyk wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

bout "you should lose this because I don't use it", it's about consistency, about not giving certain skills exemptions from the limits already built into the game.

Auras are already exempt from the limits normally built in. You can activate auras and then switch out the skill and activate another skill. Auras are already special. what he is asking for is a better method for activating auras than using one skill slot to activate one, then swapping it for another aura, activating that, swapping it for another aura, activating that... etc.

This is ONLY a quality of life improvement, and doesn't chance mechanically what players are able to do in any way in terms of number of active skills. It wouldn't grant any special exception.

Auras are already inconsistent by design with other skills - might as well design the UI to interface with them the way they are treated mechanically by the game.

--

I think a more elegant solution would be to allow us to activate auras anywhere e.g. in town. (maybe via the inventory screen somehow) and have them persist through logouts/deaths etc, rather than have them function as pseudo-skills. That is an actual mechanics change, though, which is probably more work than it is worth to implement.

Agreed!

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CentauriSoldier wrote:

You can get technical if you like and attempt to sidestep my meaning but I think it was clear that I was referring to a limit in the sense of slot availability.

I was stating that there is a limit, that's all. That isn't an attempt to "sidestep" anything; it's not my responsibility to only talk about the domain of skill slots just because it's all you had in mind.

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CentauriSoldier wrote:

It is not inconvenient for me to run eight auras. Clearly you missed that point too. The inconvenience lies in having to switch items in and out of the skill slots to activate and deactivate the auras.

Yes, that's part of running eight auras.

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CentauriSoldier wrote:

Besides, telling someone to change their build to nullify their suggestion (which defeats the purpose of making the suggestion in the first place) makes no sense at all.

First: I didn't intend to tell anyone not to run eight auras. You can do what you like. I said maybe don't run eight auras. As in, realise it's your choice what to do. It's your choice to stick with things you find inconvenient if you find the tradeoff for more power worthwhile. Similarly it's within your power to eliminate the inconvenience.

Secondly...it makes perfect sense. If I were to come in and say that the devs should make monsters easier because my glass cannon build keeps dying, people would say I should change my build (and thus "nullify my suggestion"). It isn't anyone's obligation to think that running glass cannons should be made easier, just like it isn't my obligation to think that stacking large numbers of auras should be made more convenient. I don't have to think they're a part of the game that deserves more help.

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feyith wrote:

Dude, if you've ever grouped with someone who runs 8 maxed+2 leveled auras, you wouldn't be thinking that.

Please speak for yourself. I haven't grouped with such a player, because I only play by myself and occasionally with maybe one other friend. I clearly could if I wanted to, though. Which should tell you that actually, my choices are not swayed by the desire to get a bunch of buffs from another player. No need for silly presumptions.


Guys, it doesn't matter, it's just my design preference. There's no need (or way, for that matter, at least if you're arguing from your perspectives) to discredit it, and you obviously don't need to convince me, because it's up to GGG. Similarly I didn't come to do either to this suggestion, and I apologise for comments that may have come off as trying to tear it down or attack you guys. I only sought to express a different opinion; on the off chance GGG does look at threads like this, I think everyone's preference should have a right to be seen and "taken into account" to the extent that happens.

I absolutely understand what you're all saying, there's nothing unreasonable about most of it (main exception being feyith's mindreading attempt above), I want to stress that. It's just based on a slightly different set of assumptions and priorities than I hold. That's fine.

i would rather have "Cast all auras" button. It's annoying for duels to have 5 auras to recast at start of every round.

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Altexatorka wrote:

i would rather have "Cast all auras" button. It's annoying for duels to have 5 auras to recast at start of every round.

Tell it to summoners. I have 9 zombies, 3 spectres, 12 skeletons, AND 3 auras to cast. If I had the time to cast all that I'd beat anyone... sadly PVP preparation time sucks, and all related to summons sucks too, no stats or information about damage, attack speed, nothing...

Anyway, a slidable skillbar for quick things like auras won't hurt ANYONE, I don't see how so many are arguing about this, there's no way you'd lose with an addition like this one.

One possibility I was thinking for auras was using the buff area in the top left (where activated auras appear anyway). All equipped auras icons could be shown here (greyed out when off, normal icon when on). Clicking would toggle the appropriate aura (this behaviour is already partially implemented as you can click auras here to deactivate). Convenient for those with lots of auras, unnoticeable to those without.