Passive System = Nail in the Coffin

Don't get me wrong ... I for one like this system, it's endless possibilities, etc.

But I think the game has shot itself in the foot with this. People will not play this for any length of time, the game will not acquire anything remotely close to the following that D3 or TL2 has, and the game will die. Here's why.

1 - The passive system is intimidating and complex. It requires one of 2 things: You either read a guide and copy it, or you experiment endlessly, trying to find a good system.

2 - Reading a guide and copying it kills the game. There is no sense of development, you grind mobs just to level up and put that next passive where the guide tells you to. Very quickly the game becomes a tedious grind.

3 - Experimenting with different classes and different builds is yesterday's game. We are not in 2003 where people would endlessly reroll D2 characters to try a different build. We are in 2013 where people are balancing game time between D3, TL2, GuildWars, WoW and who knows what else. We don't have 4-8 hours a day anymore to "try" things out ... today's gaming world is about a quick curve and instant gratification. The PoE passive system is just too deep for its own good.

Those of you (closed beta testers) reading this will disagree with me, on all points ... but YOU are not the people this game needs to succeed. There will always be a core of believers who will love the game for its complexity and depth, but alas, you are irrelevant. What the game needs are about a million "casuals", and they simply will not leave the "Bling Bling" of D3 or the Walk in the Park that is TL2 or their favourite MMO to explore this passive system and grind out insanely gigantic areas full of unrewarding trash mobs just to hone their build.

Folks, this game is everything what D2 / D2X should have been ... 10 years ago. But for today, it's over before it even started. And I say this as a fan, as someone who really likes this game.

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Kurkikohtaus wrote:

or you experiment endlessly

Just play the game a few times, and you'll start to know how characters should be built. No need to spoil as you're suggesting. Just wade in.

It doesn't take as much effort to figure out as you're suggesting.

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We don't have 4-8 hours a day anymore to "try" things out

No, YOU don't have 4-8 hours a day to try things out.

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Kurkikohtaus wrote:

Those of you (closed beta testers) reading this will disagree with me, on all points ... but YOU are not the people this game needs to succeed.

We are exactly the people the game needs to succeed. We are the people who raised 2.5 million dollars for the company because we like the design decisions you are criticizing. PoE is a niche-game for hardcore players who like to experiment, fail, and try again. Who like to explore complex systems with the possibility of failure. This is the niche of players PoE caters to and needs to satisfy. Imagine going to the EVE Online forums - a terribly complex yet successful game with a steep learning curve and semi-permadeath - claiming these systems will cause the game to die. You fail to recognize that these games are played because they offer something different. Do these systems appeal to a vast majority of people? No - but you would not want PoE to have to compete with games that do, like WoW or LoL, do you?

I strongly disagree.

The endless mind numbing stupidity of D3 where there is NOTHING to plan or to distribute brought me to PoE. Drinking my morning coffee in front of the passive skill tree tying to figure out builds is a huge portion of fun.

Maybe PoE will never attract as many players as D3, but is this the goal? I think not. This is the game for people who actually enjoy thinking and planing. Of course it will be less popular, but that doesn't mean it will die or so.

You're assuming they're making the game to rake in the cash only.

There is also artistic value in making a *good* game, rather than a cash grab. That's what separates it from D3 and GW2.

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but YOU are not the people this game needs to succeed.

$2,500,000 of crowdfunding during CB says otherwise.

I disagree that people WANT dumbed down games. For quite a large part they've been force fed dumbed down games, and there's been little to no competition at all in the past few years, at least not with the production quality that we can see in POE. The idea that people WANT dumbed down games is also a very convenient intellectual justification for lazy developers putting out shitty game mechanics, so it gets repeated a lot because it enables lazyness and easy ways out for designers who basically don't want to work very hard.

See: jay wilson. I mean just LOOK at the guy. Of course you don't get to pick how pretty your face is, but that's beyond his face. You don't get to look like that by accident. This guy is a fucking slob.

Anyone with previous arpg experience should be able to jump into this game and figure out the passive tree pretty damn close to immediately. Its just not hard or complicated in the slightest.

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Kahirn wrote:

Anyone with previous arpg experience should be able to jump into this game and figure out the passive tree pretty damn close to immediately. Its just not hard or complicated in the slightest.

also that, lol