Some suggestions - passive tree/keystone modifications

Don't agree with Ghost Reaver nerfs at all. Why should ES builds be punished for leeching but not life builds?

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Invalesco wrote:

I don't see what's the problem with those maps or devourers?

I just checked on my poor CI EK Shadow, with 5K ES, 5K AR and 3 EC. Rare devourer on Spider Forest map hit me for almost 2,5K ES. Considering time I needed to kill him with my 8,5K DPS EK, I would need at least survive 4-5 hits. For blue pack with Powerful Crits, even more. So probably, I would need 15K+ ES for 69 lvl map. On Standard, without those fancy Nemesis mods.

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tmaciak wrote:

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Invalesco wrote:

I don't see what's the problem with those maps or devourers?

I just checked on my poor CI EK Shadow, with 5K ES, 5K AR and 3 EC. Rare devourer on Spider Forest map hit me for almost 2,5K ES. Considering time I needed to kill him with my 8,5K DPS EK, I would need at least survive 4-5 hits. For blue pack with Powerful Crits, even more. So probably, I would need 15K+ ES for 69 lvl map. On Standard, without those fancy Nemesis mods.

Exactly, that is pretty much the amountof ES I would consider safe to not have to use GR with, which was why I proposed the buff to CI, or specifically, the ES CDR version of CI.

I'm not sure if you were around when CI didn't have GR yet, but in those days, CI was very popular even though there was no ability to leech or use flasks.

Reason being:
1. There was no Kaoms, HP builds were very rarely able to go past 6k HP
2. As a result, monster spike damage was balanced around that and was nowhere as near as it is now
3. Back then, above average CI players were able to hit ES values of above 8k+, which were 2x that of the above average HP-based player

Today:
1. There is Kaoms. HP builds can hit 9k+. Majority of HC HP-based players will hit 5.5k+ HP
2. Monster spike damage becomes higher to take into account the life buff. Everyone suffers
3. Above average CI players are only able to hit ES values of above 6-7k+. These values are only about 1.1-1.2 that of the above average HP-based player.
4. Everyone uses leech


See what I mean? The only way to make ES CDR work again is to buff CI ES values to 13-14k+ for those who choose the ES CDR route without allowing ES GR builds the same advantage.

I like your suggestion to move iron reflexes somewhere in the right side, not necessarily right next to acro but somewhere in the middle of all things dex.

Also moving vaal pact anywhere but where it is now is just a no-brainer. Its current location makes no sense. Just spend 5 minutes thinking about a vaal pact build(life or ES doesn't matter) and you will see why.

Tweaking the actual function of iron reflexes does nothing, numbers can still be played around. The problem with IR has always been that making an armor build without it is just too weak, therefore if you want to rely on armor you go IR. Even if you nerf it to the ground, it will still be better to have it than not have it. Half the bonus from Grace is better than no bonus from Grace.

In order for IR to become less used you need to buff other stuff, like for example giving templar area access to more pure armor nodes.

There is no fix for Iron Reflexes; some things are beyond salvation and must be purged.

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anubite wrote:

The main issue with acrobatics is people think evasion sucks. Acrobatics is really strong right now, it makes evasion super powerful. Could they change its mechanics? Sure, but I don't see the benefit. Making it deterministic would be fine, but it sets a bad trend - some things should just be random.

Which is why we need a mix of deterministic and random on Phase Acrobatics (note the difference. Acrobatics is absolutely fine.). I wouldn't concur with Invalesco if not for all the (not so fun) experiences I had on my Acrobat in high level maps.

You tell me how to deal with Fleet Haste aura Undying Aristocrat/Evangelists as a bow acrobat in a Palace :S

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Invalesco wrote:

GR needs a downside. reason I proposed the "less ES" is because once you're able to leech, you should not have a higher effective damage buffer as compared to someone who doesn't, for instance.

If you do not reduce the damage buffer that GR users have, there's no point in a player not taking GR and trying to focus on ES CDR instead.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you can't have a higher damage buffer then why would anyone take CI with GR? The purpose of ES is to endure higher burst damage -- you're already paying for a higher base life than going life with the fact you can't do shit about stuns and elemental status effects without crippling your stats from accessory items.

CI and GR users have to overcompensate for the shittiness of ES gear and ES in general by buying passive points on keystones, usually Vaal Pact, nevermind the cost of investing in ES itself.

GR could have an interesting/neat downside that has nothing to do with less ES. But I only see this making sense if we buff CI or ES in general -- which we should do.

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anubite wrote:

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Invalesco wrote:

GR needs a downside. reason I proposed the "less ES" is because once you're able to leech, you should not have a higher effective damage buffer as compared to someone who doesn't, for instance.

If you do not reduce the damage buffer that GR users have, there's no point in a player not taking GR and trying to focus on ES CDR instead.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you can't have a higher damage buffer then why would anyone take CI with GR? The purpose of ES is to endure higher burst damage -- you're already paying for a higher base life than going life with the fact you can't do shit about stuns and elemental status effects without crippling your stats from accessory items.

CI and GR users have to overcompensate for the shittiness of ES gear and ES in general by buying passive points on keystones, usually Vaal Pact, nevermind the cost of investing in ES itself.

GR could have an interesting/neat downside that has nothing to do with less ES. But I only see this making sense if we buff CI or ES in general -- which we should do.

You seem to miss the point in which he says that he wants to buff ES in general, but reduce it back to current values for Ghost-Reaver. Right now CI + GR is completly fine. You don't even need 5k ES to survive, since the only thing you have to survive is a single hit. Mix it with either a bit of Armor or Evasion and you are propably doing fine. The problem with CI is that the gear-progress is very routh, since different to Armor and Evasion ES is you only safety, you don't have a life-pool to back you up.

So ES-Progression needs to be improved and the ability to survive as a CI-user without GR. Although I think that 30% less is a bit high, 20% should be fair, since you don't rely on the normal ES recovery anymore. Not sure if Vaal Pact needs the inability to recover, maybe just a higher recovery cooldown will do it.

^ What Lyralei and Emphasy said.


I mean, seriously. If this was still 6 months ago when the only physical damage spell mobs were perpetus and vaal, I would still be able to understand leaving Phase Acro in its current state. After all, you can just keep kiting perpetus, although vaal back then was iffy coz of the rocks. However, we had a VAST increase in physical spell damage mobs with no improvement in phase acro.


These days, we have:

- Perpetus
- Vaal
- Undying evangelists
- Museum map boss (EK caster)
- Villa map boss
- Labyrinth boss
- Jungle Valley boss
- Academy map boss (this is just absurd) - instagib video coming up soon

For those who want to see the spike damage the labyrinth boss and jungle valley boss can do, here are the links. Note: my character has 60% chaos resists so it's not due to a lack of chaos res.

http://youtu.be/BSEnOQszzGc - Labyrinth
http://youtu.be/WccbE-aB30k - Jungle Valley

Now tell me, should something like this be in the game? Seriously?

Maze vaal (L74) is a walk in the park compared to the above two (L72).


The only reason my character is feasible at all with acro and phase acro atm is entirely due to being able to use my mana pool as a damage buffer. I have got 215% increased maximum life, with high tier life rolls on my gear (below), and I can only get up to 4.7k HP, which is barely enough to survive a single volley from the Labyrinth boss and would not have been enough to survive a volley from the Jungle Valley spider! Oh, and the lack of HP nodes in the shadow area is certainly not helping.



Edit: in fact, after typing this, I've convinced myself even further that phase acro needs a serious buff. Increase the 30% chance to 50% chance, add in another mod to it that synergises with evasion, and change it to an entropy-based system. Or for goodness sake, remove the physical spell damage mobs.

Fucking finally someone talking sense into these "evasion is fine" people.

Evasion is AWESOME until you run into a physical spell boss and find out that what an armor user put into life you've put into acro, OG, block, eva passives and you'll still be crushed by physical spells as there's nothing you can do but take it all the face.

I had the exact feeling you had/have. Evasion is wonderful but desperate for more life.

Also I love that you're fighting for CB CI to return. I honestly miss that unique playstyle. There was more of a decision than "which can I gear best atm." One of the moosifer repeating points, buff ES bases and lower ES % rolls so it's not as impossible to start CI without incredible luck or heavy trading. I do like your suggestions though, GR one I think is great.