IIQ/IIR: MF Balance and Diminishing Returns guide (v2.2)

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bersi23 wrote:

Just saying, but: You seem to forget about the great master RNGesus.

I don't forget it, that's why I always write about the "luck" factor. I can tell you my best unique items were dropped with 0 MF... and this guide is just about drop, not the chance to link a 5L or a 6L, even RNG is part of the drop.

This is just a little guide with some tips and some amount of data, about the little MF side we can partially control. If we could control everything about the game, this doesn't seem funny for me.

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bersi23 wrote:

Just saying, but: You seem to forget about the great master RNGesus. 250 Dominus runs is a lot, no doubt. But it is aswell a lot to get a 6-linked chest after using 5000 fusings while another player gets 6l after just 10 fusings.

Another example is getting one year long no good unique drops and then to drop kaoms heart + soul taker + shavronnes in just one week. Or conversely.

What I am trying to say: There are NO reliable numvers to calculate with. Either you have luck or you have no luck. Nothing else matters.

You wanna to find a key to the random generator? Well, gl on that.

You can also learn some probability before speaking, yes there is always a chance but as the sample size increases the chance of the theory being correct increases dramatically.

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Chuca79 wrote:

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bersi23 wrote:

Just saying, but: You seem to forget about the great master RNGesus.

I don't forget it, that's why I always write about the "luck" factor. I can tell you my best unique items were dropped with 0 MF... and this guide is just about drop, not the chance to link a 5L or a 6L, even RNG is part of the drop.

This is just a little guide with some tips and some amount of data, about the little MF side we can partially control. If we could control everything about the game, this doesn't seem funny for me.

I found my best uniques without MF equip aswell and my guild mates told the same.

But what makes you thing, the numbers and graphs and calculations you posted above will stay the same after you have done another 250 dominus runs?

I have always found in my experience that 100/300 was the highest I ever needed to go (back when I used MF, I don't use it anymore really). So this information and my personal experience do converge. After 250-300 IIR, I never saw any difference. For IIQ, more always seemed better, but having 70-100 always seemed to be way more than enough.

In HC, before release, I had a week where I got more good uniques than I ever had before that. I had somewhere around 50-100/200-250 IIQ/IIR (not sure why this is underlined), can't remember exactly. I found a BoR, Mon'Tregul's Grasp, Lioneye's Glare, Astramentis, etc all within a few days (and of course tons of rares and other uniques). Before that I had a character with over 100 IIQ and over 300 IIR, and never got anything good.

In my experience, at least when it comes to maps (not boss runs, I don't do them really), being able to clear quickly and safely comes first. If you can get 50-100 IIQ and 200-250 IIR, you will certainly have enough MF to have a chance at getting lots of good gear. It's all RNG in the end, you just want enough MF that you get decent amounts of drops. At least if MF is your thing.

Also, there were always diminishing returns on MF, it's just that GGG changed the way they worked before release (presumably they made MF diminish more quickly). But either way this is an interesting post. I think it is a good indicator of when MF diminishes, which is extremely useful to people who worry about that sort of thing. RNG is really the boss around here, but this is informative nonetheless.

Cool post.

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bersi23 wrote:

But what makes you thing, the numbers and graphs and calculations you posted above will stay the same after you have done another 250 dominus runs?

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Chuca79 wrote:

Cons:
- The currency drop from Dominus is almost non-existent, so the study focuses more on items.
- Every run has been done alone, so the party effects are not covered here.
- 30 runs by MF type are a good example, but they may not be enough to draw definitive conclusions.

Did you read my whole post? With N=30, maybe yes or maybe not, but again, as a miniguide, I think the data is enough to clarify a bit the MF and diminishing stuff. Of course not the Holy Grail, but a little help...

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Chuca79 wrote:

Did you read my whole post? With N=30, maybe yes or maybe not, but again, as a miniguide, I think the data is enough to clarify a bit the MF and diminishing stuff. Of course not the Holy Grail, but a little help...

Yes, I've read the OP. It is very informative and interesting to read in any case. But a bit criticism is always good, I think. I've done many many many MF runs by myself and I know very well how it works in PoE. One week you find nothing usefull, next week you wind some good items. Or you find one year nothing usefull and the next year you find the pure prosperity. Or you find never something good, independent how much and how long you play. Or conversely.

To post clear numbers and to make new or inexpereinced players believe they have to go for this concrete amount of MF to reach the best results is wrong, imho.

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bersi23 wrote:

To post clear numbers and to make new or inexpereinced players believe they have to go for this concrete amount of MF to reach the best results is wrong, imho.

Clear numbers are just that: clear numbers. From this, any player can test their own values and, as BoltThrower87 wrote: "is a good indicator of when MF diminishes, which is extremely useful to people who worry about that sort of thing". I don't try to make new players do this or that thing, that's the good point of the numbers, You can read it, check it, and compare it.

This the only purpose of this thread: show my results, compare it with some other players results and try to make our farming day easier. And again, if we could control everything about the game, this doesn't seem funny for me.

Anyway, I agree with you, any criticism is good. Thanks for your feedback.

Awesome, thanks for the informative post.

nice explained and awesome post.

Amazing, congrats, good work!!!