Vendor recipes overhaul needed

I hope that the vendor recipe system has been overhauled for OB. If not then it needs to be a fairly high priority after the chaos of OB is over and game servers are useable again. Right now I find that many recipes require items that are of 20% in quality which doesn't happen in the wild and having to use (waste) Armourer's Scraps or Blacksmith's Whetstones to raise the quality to level 20 just "sucks donkeys" (quote from SNL Wayne's World). There has to a more normal way (read as not require 100s of hours) to take all the white or blue items and use them to make some of the higher value orbs such as Exalted Orb. D3 has one of the worst recipe systems and it was an insult to all players that the devs did it that bad and expected you to go to all that work just to get a piece of junk. I understand that no-life players will aquire all the items in enough quantities to make the recipes work but where does that leave the average player such as myself that has a real life and only plays PoE less than 20 hours a week? I was hoping that PoE would do it right. Anyone have good ideas how a PoE player investing a modest amount of time can still use the recipe system to craft the rarer orbs?

I hated the whole D3 "farming" crap that ActiBlizzard foisted on all players. What a huge waste of time and waste of life (real life steal penalty) that was.

My 2 cents 
One idea that no one has ever implemented well is to be able to get a vendor recipe to drop from special chests or when a boss creature is killed like Brutus and that the recipe will have a list of items required and the crafted reward description and once you aquire them you vendor the recipe + the items to receive the reward (a rarer higher value weapon or armor, a 5 or 6 socketed item, an item with all sockets linked, or a higher value orb). The D3 vendor recipes that yield crappy garbage does not count. A real recipe system with really good rewards needs to do implemented.

edit: The recipe reward system should scale with the players level so that even lower level players could start working with recipes. Say I have a level 20 Templar. I would find a recipe that yielded an ilevel item 5 higher than my current level but would have a -3, -4, or -5 level requirement stat on it so I could use it now or very soon. Also having a better item sitting in my stash and salivating because it's better than what I'm currently using but I need to level up to use it would also keep me playing more. TL2 has some drops of great items that aren't useable because I haven't attained that level yet and it works beautifully as a motivation to keep me playing.

The more the devs can push the "carrot on a stick" principle of game play the better IMHO.

I like it at the moment actually. If I luck out and get two items of the same name, I get a chance to further my luck and get a unique by chancing it.

Alch orbs used to use the above recipe, but with several people making 30-50+ an hour by name matching with large tabs, it was nerfed.

Im sure the recipe system will be expanded with careful testing of course, over the course of the game. At the moment, what they are mainly attempting to do is get out the "main" content that is to be released upon actual release.

The issue is that the recipes above, with alch orbs, were meant as a very inefficient way of getting slightly more for vendoring large hoards of items. Instead the PoE community exhibited its own genius and actually made even that benign system exploitable, and exploit it we did.

The testing required of PoEs "Recipe" system is simply too much to ask for, at least for a while here.

well the current recipe system has really been screwy.

right now it is easier to get chaos orbs than it is to get an alchemy orb
its is easier to get a chaos orb than it is to get a regal orbs.

however regal and alchemy orbs are supposed to be more common orbs , but because of the nerfs to the double / triple name formulas , these orbs have become 3 times harder to get.

but the big issue are the vendor recipes in that more than half of them are blatant rip offs that no one would use.
actually the only ones that are used are the fusing and regret recipe chains.


for example.
It costs 8 alts for fusing. and 6 alts for a chrome . one fusing is worth 10 chromes.
so 8 alts vs 60 alts for the same value. the recipe is pants on head retarded .

stupid stuff like that needs to be fixed

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

well the current recipe system has really been screwy.

right now it is easier to get chaos orbs than it is to get an alchemy orb
its is easier to get a chaos orb than it is to get a regal orbs.

however regal and alchemy orbs are supposed to be more common orbs , but because of the nerfs to the double / triple name formulas , these orbs have become 3 times harder to get.

but the big issue are the vendor recipes in that more than half of them are blatant rip offs that no one would use.
actually the only ones that are used are the fusing and regret recipe chains.


for example.
It costs 8 alts for fusing. and 6 alts for a chrome . one fusing is worth 10 chromes.
so 8 alts vs 60 alts for the same value. the recipe is pants on head retarded .

stupid stuff like that needs to be fixed

Regals are definitely not naturally worth less then chaos. That is an inflation and trick of the economy.

The issue with making alchemys so easy to get, is it causes an absolutely huge growth in the amount of gear entering the economy, as you can basically create, on mass, specific rares that you desire.

"

EpsiIon wrote:

The issue with making alchemys so easy to get, is it causes an absolutely huge growth in the amount of gear entering the economy, as you can basically create, on mass, specific rares that you desire.

Alch orbs can be bought from vendors now at the cost of 1 regret orb - at least on current alpha on streams that I've watched.

I extremly love the vendor system and I already made up a strategy for "producing" Chaos and Regal Orbs.
Actually this is nothing special but only something you just have to know in order to execute it. And I like this.

Also I doubt that the looting process, as it is now, does not encourage tedious play(which is a very important aspect)

A bad example of bad loot process design is in my opion in D3, where you have to collect all rare items in Inferno.
Those rare items ilvl 63 and therefore can roll the best stats an be potentially the best item in the game.
The problem is, that 99,5% of all rares you find is garbage. >>THERE IS NO WAY TO BE SELECTIVE<<

In PoE rares drop in an appropriate amount and if you know how to use them you can go for different approaches in creating wealth.

Also you can collect a lot of white items which are not necessarily making you "rich" but you can play around them and get something nice.
For instance if you collect high itemlevel white (well rolled) amulets you can use orb of chance on them and if you cant use them you can either sell them or use them in the chaos orb production cycle.


In my opinion the looting process system in PoE is RIDICULOUS BRILLIANT.

Really, the ONLY think I do not like is the recipe where you get 2 chaos orbs. Its not a good idea to encourage people to NOT IDENTIFY items. Experienced players probably know which recipe I mean.


PS.: The name matching recipes were deleted and this was a good thing to the loot system, because inventory managing is only fun to a certain degree and not when you have to manage like 50 tabs(?)
Never did that but I tried and was too tedious to do.

The name matching recipes, sadly, have not been deleted. They're just more annoying.

EDIT: Or was this another of the millions of Kripp stream updates that piss me off?

"

EDIT: Or was this another of the millions of Kripp stream updates that piss me off?

This^^

Sry I dont remember the source but I am pretty sure THAT I HEARD that name matching recipes have beend deleted

If this is true, I'm sure all of us rare matchers will be happy (and a little sad).

I'm not terribly fond of the name matching recipe at all. It's pay 2 win via extra stash tabs, and that goes against the core principle of the game. Say as you will "but you can have infinite accounts and mules, that's why stash tabs are not pay to win." Wrong: The time it would take to trade items between accounts is such that a player with 1000 stash tabs will be able to name match at a vastly greater pace than a player with 250 accounts. The player who paid money is essentially benefiting from the likes of a paid "double drops" feature from other games, only much much more than double the income / time.

Any vendor recipe that benefits from storing hundreds of items should (imo) be changed to offer similar benefits in smaller doses, using basic vendor exchange to build back up to relative currency values, thus reducing the need for many stash tabs worth of items. Reducing the value of orb received from name matching just means the p2w player will generate less wealth over time, and the f2p player will still generate even less; p2w is still earning at a vastly superior rate and can benefit from the vendor exchange

But, the current status quo is currently backed by people who already have $100's of stash tabs that would otherwise be empty were this the case, so it'll likely never change. Which is why I never really argue over this, I have more constructive things to spend my time on ;)

Edit: A more elegant compromise might be the addition of Chance Shards, with exact name matches still granting a full Orb of Chance, and less stash-dependent matching recipes offering 1-5 shards. Stash tabs would still be p2w, but much less dramatically so as a f2p player should at least be able to "play the game" with just one tab worth of items -- currently impossible in the current meta.