A somewhat new player's review of Path of VexOhmIstDol

I agree with some of OPs points, while others leave me speechless.

I agree:
-The music isn't anywhere near as memorable as say Diablo 1. But this is true of virtually every PC game on the market, and frankly I'd rather it had 'good enough' music and then resources were pointed at more important things. After it failed to capture my attention early on, I now play with music off anyway.

-For the plot, both PoE and D2 have plot elements which are pretty poor with what you happen to notice on a single playthrough (esp if you skipped d2s cutscenes), but were much more complete with the collected lore and background materials brought together. Not ramming the plot down players throats like D3 did is a stylistic choice and largely a popular one. However, there are definitely improvements to be made in communicating the players goals and motivation in certain parts of the game. Like most of act 3, and act 3x feels like they forgot to finish writing the dialogue before adding it to the game.

-There is a serious lack of more specific crafting options comparable to say D2 gem socketing, and there feels at times like a lack of good mid-level uniques compared to low-level and high-level. This is gradually improving - most major patches have added both new vendor recipes (often filling gaps like this) and more uniques. But there is a long way to go.

-Desync is annoying, but I'll address that further below.

-The difficulty progression of act 3X is totally out, with many builds finding even the gardens are harder than ALL of acts 1/2 of the next difficulty up. In doing newly added cruel quests with old merc chars, I've found chars who can farm merc vaal or similar fine but can struggle against blue packs back in cruel sceptre. Before 3X was added, it was already an issue that any character that could handle Barracks and Lunaris would find the first half of act 1 boring, now it's just over the top.

Obviously there are many things that can be improved about PoE, but I think most of OPs other points were wildly missing the mark:

-There are many good safe places for new players to farm, and many low level items, crafting options, and cheap uniques which are brilliant for the first 45 or so levels. Probably more so than D2, and definitely more than D1 or TQ (haven't played TL so can't compare). Exactly how many 'new' d2 players just learning the game do you think used perfect topazes to farm obscure out of the way areas? Does this require more or less knowledge of the game, not to mention time farming topaz shards, compared to say taking a couple of gold rings and a single unique into ledge or fellshrine?

-The game is perfectly finishable solo, self-found, non-cookie-cutter, without 5L or multi-exalt uniques. And the inability to get a "basic" lightning arrow to work with less than 4 supports has nothing to do with maths. It may however involve having to make a decision between using a higher damage bow, using a lower damage unique bow with some special ability, using a lower damage bow with more sockets/links, or spending currency on one of the first two. Having to make decisions like this in a game is generally a GOOD point about a game.

-Blues, most rares, basically any item that's not a 5L/6L white or rarer unique is worthless? Gahh!! I have to assume this is blatant trolling: There has never been an ARPG where random crappy drops were MORE useful than in PoE. Or maybe this is why you think there is such a problem with the gear progression - you're not even picking them up. Even if you're just vendoring them, the trans and alch shards from blues in PoE is far more valuable than say the gold of d1/d2. And it's not even very expensive for a self-found char to turn say ANY random blue gloves or boots into a pair good enough to finish merciless in, even if it would be smarter to wait for a slightly better base and save yourself a scouring and a couple of jewellers.

Now, onto desync. It's annoying, we all wish it were gone, it never will be, so we all wish its effects were minimised as much as possible. That being said, I haven't played an online ARPG which was any better. OP is hardly the first on these forums to claim no other game is like this and that D3s forums never mention desync. The ones I played, ranked from best to worst, in terms of the effects of desync/rubber/banding/lag:
* D1 offline / D2 offline
* PoE / D2 on IP
* D2 on bnet / D1 online
* D3 on bnet
* TQ online / TQ offline (what the hell was up with that?)

TQs forums were, from what I remember, more full of "fix the rubberbanding" than PoEs. Pretty much every one of my rpg-playing friends only played D2 locally or by direct connection largely because of its lag and connection issues. Blizzard bragged about D3s desync as a 'feature' when questioned on it, and outright said this is as good as it'll ever get. At least PoE say they want to improve it and they're working on it.

I don't think people fully understood my "safe place to farm" message.

I'm not just talking about "where are the monsters a cakewalk"?

I'm talking about "where are the monsters a cakewalk AND can drop Voltaxic that I can solo with a bunch of MF gear and not break a sweat?"

It may sound absolutely ridiculous and obnoxious to ask for, but that's exactly what the Mausoleum, Crypt, Pit, and Ancient Tunnels were in D2 LoD.

Now as to gear checks/progression: this all falls under the same roof. Hear this line of logic out:

At level 1, you have absolutely nothing but your gaming experience from playing ARPGs, so only thing the game can hold you to is that you don't do stupid things like tank Hillock with face when using a bow or distance casting, for instance--or that you don't stupidly run into a pack of 20 mobs.

Come cruel (or normal scepter even), you had a chance to gain quite a few levels, so the game can assess you on whether or not you have a good build. If you've been following a cookie cutter build, then your good build and the game's added difficulty are a wash, and you're back to using your gaming logic.

Now come cruel scepter and onward, the game assesses you on your gear. After all, it has to at some point, and at that point, now read:

The player's progression is no longer in the player's hands.

In an ARPG, when gear becomes a make-or-break issue as opposed to nice-to-have, the player's progression goes from the player to the whims of the RNG. For instance, in D2, it was definitely not such a massive issue whether or not you were wielding occulus + spirit monarch instead of spirit broadsword + splendor grim shield (splendor was Eth+Lum IIRC that was basically a runeword to turn any shield into lidless wall), especially not when you had a massive wall of a merc giving you infinite mana and massive defense.

Basically, the way the equipment system should work is that the pace of the drops should keep pace with the difficulty of the content so that there needs to be as little grinding as possible. I suppose that may be antithetical to a company calling itself GRINDING GEAR games, but a gear check tells me that the company did not do a good job pacing the content if the game ever doubts your gear is up to snuff in the first place.

In all other AAPRG and MMO games, I've focused on progressing one character. I have relatively limited play time (compared to others) so I felt the need to grind on one character to progress.

With POE, I've found playing alts a true joy. I'm well on my way to having a L80 in each class. The breadth of variety from the skill tree and skills is amazing. And as I've played alts, I've gathered up a nice stash of starter uniques, currency, and knowledge that make the leveling curve simple, even through merciless. I hardly have to pause to farm for new gear to progress at any level now, and all of the so-called "edge cases" are simple when you have experience and develop compensating strategies (lightning thorns tough on you? just kite a bit, it wears off.)

I believe that the OP's comments are based on the perspective of someone who hasn't taken the time to enjoy the game's true strength which is build diversity. In most other games, there are a small handful of cookie cutter builds. POE has its cookie cutter builds as well, but interesting and fun new builds are being invented on pretty much a weekly basis. That's a real testament to the design and lasting playability of the game.

Maybe the first run through the acts is a bit tough at times. But who cares, that will represent a very small fraction of the total time you spend playing if the game is replayable (which it is) or if the end game offers somewhat rewarding progression (which it does).

I have read all. Good review.
(One exception is that I don't care much about music.)

"

rsrogers4 wrote:

Maybe the first run through the acts is a bit tough at times. But who cares, that will represent a very small fraction of the total time you spend playing if the game is replayable (which it is) or if the end game offers somewhat rewarding progression (which it does).

unless you decide to try a build like Wander (ele or phys) that is nothing but a gear check: do you have a good wand yes/no. between all my chars (few of them 80+) i managed to get this as my best self found wand:

both are beyond rubbish and i already know that i will not be able to clear piety not even mentioning merc dominus

so yes, you can cruise the game if you select non-gear dependent build (ek, LA, traps) but i wish you all the best when you try to go with build like wander where success or failure depends on one thing: your wand

so if you select one of the few non-gear-check builds youll have replayability. if you start with a wander - youll uninstall around cruel act 3 depressed by how bad drops of certain items are (wander wands are terribad)

end game progression after 81 is a mindless grind and any progress is not based on your skill, not even on your gear - but on map drop rng. if you have good maps drop you are set. if you run dry - nothing you control will save you (except for what trumps gameplay: trading)

"

sidtherat wrote:

"

rsrogers4 wrote:

Maybe the first run through the acts is a bit tough at times. But who cares, that will represent a very small fraction of the total time you spend playing if the game is replayable (which it is) or if the end game offers somewhat rewarding progression (which it does).

unless you decide to try a build like Wander (ele or phys) that is nothing but a gear check: do you have a good wand yes/no. between all my chars (few of them 80+) i managed to get this as my best self found wand:

both are beyond rubbish and i already know that i will not be able to clear piety not even mentioning merc dominus

so yes, you can cruise the game if you select non-gear dependent build (ek, LA, traps) but i wish you all the best when you try to go with build like wander where success or failure depends on one thing: your wand

so if you select one of the few non-gear-check builds youll have replayability. if you start with a wander - youll uninstall around cruel act 3 depressed by how bad drops of certain items are (wander wands are terribad)

end game progression after 81 is a mindless grind and any progress is not based on your skill, not even on your gear - but on map drop rng. if you have good maps drop you are set. if you run dry - nothing you control will save you (except for what trumps gameplay: trading)

You know it's impossible to make every single build in the game gear-independent.

It's like saying it's a gear check when you do a facebreaker build because you need facebreakrs and meginord's first.

Any end game progress in any ARPG after super high levels is just grinding and luck more levels or wealth, this is from the lack of end game content and more items.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

You know it's impossible to make every single build in the game gear-independent.

It's like saying it's a gear check when you do a facebreaker build because you need facebreakrs and meginord's first.

you took the easy way out of it

truth is that if you want to get to end game without trading and relying more than less on self drops you need to select build that is NOT gear dependent. and it happens that there are like 3? 4? such builds

all other builds are straight up gear checks with no place for player skill nor creativity. your sword does 120dps? tough.. your bow is a slow, non ele low phys dmg bow? tough.. your spells suck? level up the gems playing in high lvl areas.. oh but you cant? tough..

game is entertaining for long when progression is slowed by player skill/creativity. not by arbitrary and artificial time sinks. unfortunately poe currently is not so much about skill (the build creating requires some skill, granted) but it is about a) luck b) trading. both can be brute-forced by extreme time expenditure that create false sensation of longievity. but it is just paying time taxes

in d2 you could reach end game quickly, had all content (except ubers) available relatively quickly and after that it was just about polishing your build/char/gear or pvp. it was possible without artificial time taxes

and somehow people play this game up to this day

game with time tax a) attract RMT because after some time people start to realize that they grind for 1week to see an exalt that can be aquired otherwise b) die off quickly after someone pays that tax because there is nothing left at that point c) are for absolute no-lifers and these form a small albeit vocal group (frequently with NO money to spare)

"

sidtherat wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

You know it's impossible to make every single build in the game gear-independent.

It's like saying it's a gear check when you do a facebreaker build because you need facebreakrs and meginord's first.

you took the easy way out of it

truth is that if you want to get to end game without trading and relying more than less on self drops you need to select build that is NOT gear dependent. and it happens that there are like 3? 4? such builds

all other builds are straight up gear checks with no place for player skill nor creativity. your sword does 120dps? tough.. your bow is a slow, non ele low phys dmg bow? tough.. your spells suck? level up the gems playing in high lvl areas.. oh but you cant? tough..

game is entertaining for long when progression is slowed by player skill/creativity. not by arbitrary and artificial time sinks. unfortunately poe currently is not so much about skill (the build creating requires some skill, granted) but it is about a) luck b) trading. both can be brute-forced by extreme time expenditure that create false sensation of longievity. but it is just paying time taxes

in d2 you could reach end game quickly, had all content (except ubers) available relatively quickly and after that it was just about polishing your build/char/gear or pvp. it was possible without artificial time taxes

and somehow people play this game up to this day

game with time tax a) attract RMT because after some time people start to realize that they grind for 1week to see an exalt that can be aquired otherwise b) die off quickly after someone pays that tax because there is nothing left at that point c) are for absolute no-lifers and these form a small albeit vocal group (frequently with NO money to spare)

It's a bad thing that you have to play this game to get anywhere?

Do people prefer the massive amounts of duped gear (also they RMT a shit ton, D2 is the KNOWN RMT game outside of WoW?) Also by "get to end game quickly" you mean people hell rush you within 15 mins and you can do chaos runs to level 60 in like 1 hour.

I'm sorry but this is what an ARPG is, outside out the number of gear-free characters (which there is at least around 10 by the way more or less, 3-4 would just mean LA or any bow variants based off of life which would be 3-4 by itself + spectral throw variants, 2h tanky variants, freezing pulse variants and so on) Everything with gear is important because this is what the genre is, about finding loot and gear.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

You know it's impossible to make every single build in the game gear-independent.

It's like saying it's a gear check when you do a facebreaker build because you need facebreakrs and meginord's first.

you took the easy way out of it

truth is that if you want to get to end game without trading and relying more than less on self drops you need to select build that is NOT gear dependent. and it happens that there are like 3? 4? such builds

all other builds are straight up gear checks with no place for player skill nor creativity. your sword does 120dps? tough.. your bow is a slow, non ele low phys dmg bow? tough.. your spells suck? level up the gems playing in high lvl areas.. oh but you cant? tough..

game is entertaining for long when progression is slowed by player skill/creativity. not by arbitrary and artificial time sinks. unfortunately poe currently is not so much about skill (the build creating requires some skill, granted) but it is about a) luck b) trading. both can be brute-forced by extreme time expenditure that create false sensation of longievity. but it is just paying time taxes

in d2 you could reach end game quickly, had all content (except ubers) available relatively quickly and after that it was just about polishing your build/char/gear or pvp. it was possible without artificial time taxes

and somehow people play this game up to this day

game with time tax a) attract RMT because after some time people start to realize that they grind for 1week to see an exalt that can be aquired otherwise b) die off quickly after someone pays that tax because there is nothing left at that point c) are for absolute no-lifers and these form a small albeit vocal group (frequently with NO money to spare)

It's a bad thing that you have to play this game to get anywhere?

Do people prefer the massive amounts of duped gear (also they RMT a shit ton, D2 is the KNOWN RMT game outside of WoW?) Also by "get to end game quickly" you mean people hell rush you within 15 mins and you can do chaos runs to level 60 in like 1 hour.

truth is that 'play this game to get anywhere' is time tax - you gain no skill in that. you simply HAVE to waste some time to get to higher level. it is gated by gear, not skill. you get lucky drop - gongrats, you are 'skilled' now. if you dont - bummer, you are 'noob' now. there is nothing that checks your skill (except planning a build) and the time you HAVE to play is not limited by skill. you learn nothing new while paying that time tax.

it is different than like playing q3. you play the same map, you play with the same 9 weapons that you know like your own hand and yet each match teaches you something. so you play more because there is this thing called learning curve.

poe has little to no learning curve (except builds and a bit about gear). it is just time tax. so yep, im annoyed that i HAVE to 'endure 60 levels of cleaving' (Kripp) to then try my new build. that time is a time wasted. the same applies to ~70 chars farming for a gear allowing them to progress further. this is also time wasted and ammount of time needed does not in any way is controlled by player. it is just pure luck. same with mapping. time gate. luck gate. gear gate.

these gates are included in poe to form artificial way to create longevity. longevity that only skill-based content offers and that stands test of time.

"

truth is that 'play this game to get anywhere' is time tax - you gain no skill in that. you simply HAVE to waste some time to get to higher level. it is gated by gear, not skill. you get lucky drop - gongrats, you are 'skilled' now. if you dont - bummer, you are 'noob' now. there is nothing that checks your skill (except planning a build) and the time you HAVE to play is not limited by skill. you learn nothing new while paying that time tax.

it is different than like playing q3. you play the same map, you play with the same 9 weapons that you know like your own hand and yet each match teaches you something. so you play more because there is this thing called learning curve.

poe has little to no learning curve (except builds and a bit about gear). it is just time tax. so yep, im annoyed that i HAVE to 'endure 60 levels of cleaving' (Kripp) to then try my new build. that time is a time wasted. the same applies to ~70 chars farming for a gear allowing them to progress further. this is also time wasted and ammount of time needed does not in any way is controlled by player. it is just pure luck. same with mapping. time gate. luck gate. gear gate.

these gates are included in poe to form artificial way to create longevity. longevity that only skill-based content offers and that stands test of time.

This is more of a genre issue then a "game" issues, if you could simply just create a character that can get to "high level" that would defeat the traditional reason and meaning of why people ARPGs (to create many characters, find loot, and see there character get powerful over time)

Skill in ARPGs is a pointless debate, you can learn how to play the ARPG. Learn to make a build, effectively farm and not diem how to best use your character, and how to gear and all of the interesting interactions you have with monsters. Outside of that if you don't define that as skill, all you do is right click on monsters and kill them. This is exactly the same in D2 or any other ARPG.

Comparing a competitive shooter to an ARPG is quite different, if you would want something like this but more "skillful" I recommend league of legends or something because this isn't really the genre for a "skill based game" within your definition unless you only play ladder to get to the top of the board or play races.

Skill based content is a really good reason why a game as longevity, D2 the herald of ARPGs had little to no skill involved in playing it with your definition but look how long it lasts?