Passive skill system- question

Maybe on the same model for some other RPGs, cheap at the beginning, then more and more expensive. It gives room to mistakes at the beginning, but becomes more of a hassle later on.

Not allowing respecs (or allowing only limited ones) and such would limit this game's potential in a casual market.

I hope you truly get the freedom to move things around so you can experiment with different things depending on what phase of leveling you are in.

It seems a number of people agree with my assessment that reskilling passive skills should not be limited. I am actually surprised/delighted by this.

Consider the following, it's much more in line with the spirit of experimentation provided with the active skills system.

What would be über cool, would be to be able to save/restore different skill trees (as I mentioned only in the safe area, so that there is no in-combat abuse).

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esquif wrote:

Bombadil, you seem to have a little experience on the skill tree. Even if you have let's say a marauder, and that you put your points exclusively in the strength skills, isn't there still a terrible number of them? Is there a respec system, maybe not yet implemented, to let you experiment?

On most games without a respec, I hoard my skill points for many levels before I finally spend them... I hate that.

You simply can't horde these points as each passive gives you attribute points as well, meaning if you DID horde them, you're not getting new gear or skill gem levels.

Which means the tree really IS a path of progress. And since each node is a single rank, there's not really a sense of just dumping all your points into one skill. There are fields of similar abilities that you have to navigate around/through.

So, you simply cannot horde your points, and there's no reason to. Yes, it's easy to make a mistake on a build, but there are small respecs soon to be implemented (as already mentioned). And, it's part of the process of a new game, too -- making the mistakes to learn what is most useful. Honestly, it's much more enjoyable trying a build and finding out it doesn't really work than to read on a wiki somewhere what the optimal witch build is, etc.

I think respecs would really hurt the game, making each character less important, and each choice more trivial.

This is especially important in this game since so many of the unique qualities of it are based on the massive amount of choices you get via the passive skill system.

For instance, I'm working on a claw-based ranger. I know this isn't an optimal build in the least, but it's fun making the hard choices (and there's a LOT of them in the tree -- do I start getting int passives so I can get more int, since claws require int; do I go for more claw damage right away or start buffing frenzy charges; and so on). If I were able to spend some currency, or what have you, and get a total respec, that entire aspect of the game is lost. Completely. I don't really care, at that point, where I put my points because I can just move them around when I feel like it.

Respecs works well (I'm guessing) in D3 because your skill choices will be limited more by where you allocate your runes (if that system is in place now-a-days), which (hopefully) will lock to that skill. Which means, while you can change skills willy-nilly, it won't be as effective as focusing on a few skills, and thus builds exist. Additionally, D3 is focusing on max level as the end-game AND probably most of the game itself, in a way that's reminiscent of MMOs. As such, being able to change your single character of a given class is more important. PoE, on the other hand, is more interested in design direction for the leveling experience, with some high-max level content.

While it can be frustrating at times leveling a new character for a new build, convenience can easily kill a game faster than that frustration (in a similar example, it seems like WoW has been on the decline since they've added a TON of convenience features which cheapen the game experience itself). Honestly, I get more excited about starting a new character for a new build than thinking "oh I should respec and try the build out!"

Respecs would help the game; respecs encourage casual play, trial and error, and most importantly, freedom. I would spend much more of my time outside of the game researching when compared to actually playing if a system would otherwise force you to make a new character if you wanted to change directions.

However, I think that this skill tree will need a unique respec plan possibly locking people out of going intelligence when they were strength based, and so on.

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Broseph357 wrote:

Respecs would help the game; respecs encourage casual play, trial and error, and most importantly, freedom. I would spend much more of my time outside of the game researching when compared to actually playing if a system would otherwise force you to make a new character if you wanted to change directions.

However, I think that this skill tree will need a unique respec plan possibly locking people out of going intelligence when they were strength based, and so on.

Freedom isn't always a good thing in a game. Especially when it cheapens the actual experience. If you can respec easily and often, there's no impact about where you place your passive skill points. The game has a lot of freedom already in how you spend passive points, what skills you use, and what gear you use as well. GGG has mentioned that they plan to include minor respecs to fix simple mistakes, such as single point here and there that you found out weren't all that effective for your build.

But if you can easily switch between a lightning and ice witch, then following a path of which choices to make as you became an ice witch really is nullified. Also, choices made while leveling can be nullified as well, making, essentially, the leveling process much less important in a game that's all about leveling.

Each point in the passive system is significant because it takes you somewhere, and so each choice you make is important as you decide where to go. And trust me, from playing the game (even as little as I have), those choices are actually quite enjoyable. Losing that because of being able to easily respec would really hurt the game. This isn't an MMO or game with a similar end-game = the main game philosophy, and that is where respecs come in handy.

If you take just a few minutes to look at the passive tree, it becomes much simpler. I was overwhelmed by it at first, especially since I just wanted to dive right into playing. After taking about 5 minutes to skim through it, it quickly became apparent that it's set up logically. Each major area concentrates on a build aspect, and these areas branch into supporting aspects, and merge into hybrid aspects and all-around aspects that many classes can use.

There is an ongoing epic respec argument in the beta section. From the people that have posted there, most DO NOT want easy respecs (I'm in this group). Regardless of what's said, I believe GGG is firm in their decision to only offer very minor respec options.