Blood Magic still weak

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twiztedmind wrote:

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shroudb wrote:

after going through this wall of text:

BM's main advantage is the fact that you can easily sustain a very high mana cost skill, p.e. a dominating blow costing upwards to 200+ /cast, while with mana this wold be impossible.

even on normal skills, the cost of a 5-6l attack goes up to ~40. Given that a lot of those builds have attack speeds up to 6-9 skills /second, that means that you would either need so huge mana regen (200-300mp/sec) that for a HP build it would be impossible OR that you are forced to use a mana leech gem.

On the other hand the life leech (which you are either way already using) returning 40hp less (when it returns close to 900/sec with just 10k dps) is more than fine to sustain every single cost in the game without sacrificing a single node for mana/mana regen/etc.

So, the advantage of BM is +1gem (in place of mana leech) that is usually at least 10-20%+ more damage, and you free up all those passives from mana allowing you to build even more health and damage.

as for how the game actually calculates the aura cost this is how:
60% * 71% (support gem costs always go first)= 0,426. The game removes any and all decals after the second, so that goes to 42%
42%* 5% (the game then goes to passives starting from reduced/increased modifiers, in my example i used a single 5% reservation node that was near the BM) = 0,021. This becomes 2%
42%-2%= 40%
40% *40% = 16%
40%-16%= 24%

so final cost with only 1 passive for reduced mana is 24% for each 60% aura. You can get this as low as total reservation = 30% for 2 60% auras + 1 40% aura with full aura passives +alpha's howl but this is really niche and fail build as i said above (a friend of mine did it and it fails at hard content for so much investment)

so to recap:
BM DOES give you more damage in the form of 1 free link, and DOES give you free passive points due to not needing any mana nodes.

After checking your character list, all I see is that you're theory crafting, instead of actually testing how the things go on 70+ map stuff... not to mention HC building... when you do that, using BM, with build made by you, running 70+ stuff, come back and tell me more by your experience, but not by what you have read in POE wiki. I am not here to argue. If you want we can do that... you choose the equipment, chose the build, the skills etc.... Post it here, give me 20 mins, and the chance to replace 20 (not all but 20) of the passive nodes, you have used. I can bet with you that the build will have both higher survivability And/Or higher damage than your Auraless BM cartoon, and still be able to sustain the mana needed for skills., no matter if i replace a dmg support gem with BM gem, or mana leech gem.... considering the fact that all the auras are buffed nowadays... determination 50% more armor - 10k armor to 15k - from 40% damage reduction to 60%. Grace same... even if i choose to put the 3 new Ele resist auras for 40% mana reservation each, to cap my ele resistances with 5% more to maximum which is about taking 20% less damage from elemental atacks, that makes HUGE difference than your 15-20% dps for that slot from mana leech gem.... Actually when I activate them i will raise all ele resistances by 40% and be able to put even more HP/ES/Armor items neglecting the ele resists, OR use ELE dmg rings to cover that lack of DPS.from that slot. The only good thing about BM is convenience for new players OR for casual players, that don't like pushing their survivability or Damage to the limits. There were barely few nice higher level builds of BM in the old version, and even then not the very best that can be achieved, but fun... now ? there are no such, the difference with 1-2 aura or without IS HUGE, no matter if you play in party or Solo, and cannot be compared to the benefits of convenience not having mana issues. It is simple as that. If anyone can prove me wrong, please post an active BM build of a 80+ with its stats shown. I would really love to see someone breaking the "myth" that BM is garbage at its current form.

Btw: thanks for the info on the math, that usefull ! And that's not sarcasm.

as i said, i dont run BM as a passive, like ever.
my main is using atm 6 auras +BM gems

and if he wouldn't mind i could give you the name of my friend that tried to copy my build using BM and ended up using the 2*60%+1*40% with 30% total reserved life, but he does mind afaik (as i said it isnt really viable to do so)

btw, i frequently run lvl 72 maps with my lvl 77, facerolling them too even solo despite being build as a party character (6 auras at +78% each)

The problem right now is that using Blood Magic as a support gem is better than the Keystone 99% of the time. Because then you can run 2-4 auras on Mana and reserve 100% of it, and those additional auras will give you more bang for your buck than a single support gem ever will.


Here's a possible solution: Instead of Mortal Conviction giving a mana reservation multiplier, why not make it so Auras have a cost that is not associated with a percentage of life pool? The example that first came to mind was to make it so it reserved a percentage of your (now hidden) Mana pool, but that wouldn't work too well since it would be too easy to get as little mana as possible and run 10 auras on life for nearly free. But there could be some solution, even if they have to code in an alternate cost on the Auras themselves for how much they reserve after taking MC.

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kaross579 wrote:

The problem right now is that using Blood Magic as a support gem is better than the Keystone 99% of the time. Because then you can run 2-4 auras on Mana and reserve 100% of it, and those additional auras will give you more bang for your buck than a single support gem ever will.


Here's a possible solution: Instead of Mortal Conviction giving a mana reservation multiplier, why not make it so Auras have a cost that is not associated with a percentage of life pool? The example that first came to mind was to make it so it reserved a percentage of your (now hidden) Mana pool, but that wouldn't work too well since it would be too easy to get as little mana as possible and run 10 auras on life for nearly free. But there could be some solution, even if they have to code in an alternate cost on the Auras themselves for how much they reserve after taking MC.

they could change it to something like "first aura is free" or something. This way you can have 1 aura without any loss or investment, or they could change it to something like "70%less reserve 60% reduced aura effectivness, thus allowing you to use a lot, but albeit weaker, auras, unless you pick up the aura passives and thus run a lot, and fairly strong auras at the cost of a lot of passive skill points"

(double post delete pls.)

Brb gonna reserv my 2k life...

Bm keystone dead since open beta only few builds was using back at the days nowadays probably less than 100 actual player :). Back at the days u can ran 5 mediocre or more auras with bm gem now its 2-3 powerfull one.

What was good at the old days was anger,wrath and grace had flat amount and can be run with BM keystone easily.Especially grace which is curicial for any kind of build.

But people wanted dam all auras(also with some unique bm items ''clever usage of game mechanic'' u can skip the bm gem mana multiplier easily)

So they nerfed the BM keystone even more with aura change and lock the humble Bm users to BM gem.

Bm keystone not viable for hc and most of the sc builds. Even full specced auramancers not using BM keystone so i did too having hard time to understanding what 'Chris' said.

Btw im using BM keystone with 2 80+ mapping char and leech from party members auras.

For last still having not able to use mana with majority of the builds and yet still having this system for your skills such a bad and outdated mechanic.

What if BM keystone don't remove all mana anymore but reserve 50-70% of your mana pool with "useless" aura? This way you still spend life instead mana on skills but will be able to use 30-50% of your mana pool for auras.

Many good suggestions here. Keep it up people. Also move this thread to suggestions?

70% less mana reserved.
You can only have 2 auras active at once.

[/quote]

as i said, i dont run BM as a passive, like ever.
my main is using atm 6 auras +BM gems

and if he wouldn't mind i could give you the name of my friend that tried to copy my build using BM and ended up using the 2*60%+1*40% with 30% total reserved life, but he does mind afaik (as i said it isnt really viable to do so)

btw, i frequently run lvl 72 maps with my lvl 77, facerolling them too even solo despite being build as a party character (6 auras at +78% each)[/quote]

And you shouldn't :) .. I am not using it either :) ... I stopped using it in the older version, in the new one, its absurd :) Btw your math in your previous post even prove it further that it is even worse. I tough at least the passive nodes all stack. At least mortal conviction to stack with the other reduced passive nodes. With your math it is even worthless to even try using BM with aura running. The only twisted build that i can think of using this stuff is something like this (in link below), with shavrones, and Alpha only while casting the auras.


supporter

Using your Math of Exile :) .... with Alpha and passives - 54% reduction, reduced mana gem lvl 20, and Mortal conviction, the 60% auras will go 12% life reserved each and the 40% should go 7% (life reserved). That should let you use 8 - 60% auras, or some 40%s... since you don't regen life - drop vitality aura, also dont needing clarity since you dont have mana anymore....

Maybe the 3 new ele resist auras for a total of 3x7%=21% reserved life
All 3 damage auras for another 3x12%=36% reserver life
OF course Discipline for another 12%

for a total of 69% reserved life... so 31% left, for another aura, maybe determination and/or grance for even more survivability... using wand and a shield... this should go well, but only in theory, again... oh forgot to mention all auras are 99% buffed with the passives, so everything is x2 effect, Resolute Tehnique is also required since you have live 50% chance of hitting stuff...

But then again without BM with the same build, without Mortal Conviction, a 60% aura will be dropped to exactly 20% reserved mana for the 60%-ish ones, and 15% for the 40-ish ones... so...

you can still put the 3 damage auras with the discipline for 80% of you mana, and the 3 ele linked to lvl 20 BM gem into life for 90% reduced life... these 2 passive nodes from BM could go for some mana pool near the witch. Both builds should be further improved with 10% if using reduced mana quality gems, And/or using Prism Guardian

At the end there should be about 100% increase of Armor if using Determination, 600 ES from clarity, maxed resistances 4% x 100 effect... like 8% plus the elemental Adaptation node for 2% more so you should end up with 85% to all ele resistances, which is quite impressive.... Since you are running 3 damage auras with 100% Effect added, I wont even bother about that slot lost for mana leech or life leech :)

You can easily go for blood magic-supported auras with a 50-50 (low life) build to ensure you're always on low life. With shavronne's and blood magic auras you can easily maintain low life at little to no risk, and have your whole mana pool free, likely for Mind over Matter.