Lightning strike mechanics

I tried searching the forums to no avail, and apologize ahead of time if these questions have been beaten to death. Basically, when trying to plan out a character with lightning strike, I came up with a ton of questions about game mechanics themselves and certain interactions with lightning strike. So..

1) Added (fire, lightning, cold) Damage support gem: with that increase only the physical damage portion of Lightning Strike? The initial hit is 50% physical/50% lightning, so this support will only add a percentage of half the strike damage?

2) Weapon elemental damage support gem: Does this add elemental mods from your weapon to the linked skill? Like if your mace does +60-110 fire damage, will that be added to the skill? On both the strike and the bolts of lightning strike?

3)30% increased (fire, cold, lightning) damage with weapon passives: does this take a weapon mod, like the above +60-110, and increase it by 30%? So it doesn't affect skills doing elemental damage like lightning strike?

4) Melee physical damage support gem: will this or will this not affect the damage of the lightning strike bolts? They are ranged but spawned from a melee attack.

5) What supports and passives are generally recommended for lightning strike? For single target and AoE?

Thanks guys. Loving the game, but it's a little confusing at first.

I could be wrong here, but from what I understand, it works like this. All the physical damage buffs from passives and whatnot are added to your physical damage. Then it takes the % physical damage and changes it to lighting damage. Then it factors in all the added damage elemental damage from gear, auras, and support gems. Then it takes into account all elemental % buffs from passives, gems, and gear into account. From their, all that elemental damage is added to the leftover physical damage (that wasn't changed to lighting damage. That total is your will be the attack spread for when you physically hit someone with the melee part of the lighting strike. Each bolt that comes out will then do 30% less of that total. So if your melee hit did 100 of each damage type normally, each bolt would then 70 damage of each type. Essentially, I think all the damage modifications are done prior to the bolts shooting out unless you add something like multiple projectiles, chain, or fork. At that point I am not sure if it takes a % away from that 70 damage, of if it takes away a % that is the sum of the one from the support gem plus then 30% inherent of lightning strike. If I am completely off base here, I am sure someone will speak up.

So to answer your questions

1) added elemental will work just like if you added it to your default attack. If you use an added fire % and have no fire damage already (from items and whatnot), nothing will be gained. If you have 100 fire damage from items and put a plus 30% fire damage support gem, you will then do 130 fire damage. It will add nothing to your physical damage. Added lightning damage on the other hand will work with the skill well since it effects the 50% of your physical damage that was converted to lighting damage.

2) All elemental damage from items is added just like a default attack.

3) % increase elemental damage nodes do effect the elemental damage you have from items. If you have 100 fire damage from weapons and you get plus 30% fire damage, your lighting strike will do 130 fire damage.

4) The bolts do all damage types that are on the melee swing just with the % deduction. So it's possible to burn or freeze enemies with the bolts even though visually they look like lightning.

5) For groups you probably want either multiple projectiles or fork or both. You want added elemental damage, added physical damage, and then whatever you want after that. For single target, you want to focus on gems that add damage.

Thanks for the replies, they help out a lot. Just a couple more points I feel like I need clarification on...

A) It was said that the added elemental damage nodes affect elemental damage modifiers on weapons, but do they affect elemental damage from skills? So, would it buff the 50% damage that is converted to lightning? Is that even worth buffing if it isn't buffing the entire attack?

B) Added melee physical damage support gem: Will this buff 100% of the damage, since the lightning damage is Based-on-Physical? Might this not be better than added elemental damage support if weapons don't have elemental damage modifiers? (sub question: are high end weapons only considered optimal with high elemental damage rolls?)

C) Is a Marauder's strength attribute (and thus the damage bonus) hefty enough at high levels to warrant the iron grip support for the projectiles?

This is kind of the Thread I´ve been looking for.
Thank you Vipermagi for your example it is by far the best I´ve seen.
But still there are some things I don´t understand

"

100 base Physical damage

On what exactly is Phsical Base Damage dependant?
The Weapon Physical damage?
Any passives?
Is it just what is written on the item itself? and is there any way to increase it?

"

100 base Physical, 50% Converted to Lightning = 50 base Lightning damage
'Increased' modifiers are applied. Because it's based-on-Physical, increased Physical damage also applies. 100+50+20 = +170%, so a 2.7 multiplier. 50*2.7 = 135.
Then, multiplicative modifiers are applied. We only have More Physical, so 135*1.4 = 189 Lightning damage.

So a Mob, that is directly hit by a lightning strike that does 100 base Physical suffers 189 lightning damage.
And how physical damage would it suffer? is my guess of 140 correct?

What would happen if the charakter also had:

20% Increased Meele Physical damage (passives and gear) would it just add to the 100% Strength bonus to a 120% bonus?

"

Added Fire damage support is x% based on Physical, actually. Just sayin' :P

How would the arithmetic look with a 30% added fire damage support gem?


Then there is the Iron Grip Keystone

"

The increase to Physical Damage from Strength applies to Projectile attacks as well as Melee attacks

with this your Bolts should do 60 Lighning Damage and 50 * 2 *0,7 = 70 Damage


So if we would try to make an order of the best bonus type we would end up with: (not completed yet)




with iron grip: all

67,5% effectivness - 5 str
67,5% effectivness - 1% Weapon Damage
42,5% effectivness - 1% increased Lighning Damage
42,5% effectivness - 1% increased Elemental Damage
25% effectivness - 1% Meele Physical Damage or 50% effectivness -1% Meele Physical Damage??


without iron grip: all

67,5% effectivness - 1% Weapon Damage
50% effectivness - 5 str
42,5% effectivness - 1% increased Lighning Damage
42,5% effectivness - 1% increased Elemental Damage
25% effectivness - 1% Meele Physical Damage or 50% effectivness -1% Meele Physical Damage??



meele attack

100% effectivness - 5 str
100% effectivness - 1% Weapon Damage
50% effectivness - 1% increased Lighning Damage
50% effectivness - 1% increased Elemental Damage
50% effectivness - 1% Meele Physical Damage or 100% effectivness -1% Meele Physical Damage??




with iron grip: bolts

50% effectivness - 5 str
50% effectivness - 1% Weapon Damage
50% effectivness - 1% increased Lighning Damage
50% effectivness - 1% increased Elemental Damage
0% effectivness - 1%


without iron grip: bolts

50% effectivness - 1% Weapon Damage
50% effectivness - 1% increased Lighning Damage
50% effectivness - 1% increased Elemental Damage
0% effectivness - 1%
0% effectivness - 5 str

am I correct?

Hello everyone,
could anyone answer vision2's question?

Here are some more:

I work towards a 2H Lightning Strike (LS) Templar.

But i'm unsure wether i should go further into the witch or marauder tree.


Or to be more clear: should i invest more in elemental (lightning) or physical damage passives (the same question applies to the gems which increase phyiscal or elemental damage)?

Some more specific questions:

1. I understand that physical modifiers which are not specifically marked as "melee" also work for the LS-projectiles (like "increases mace damage") is that true?

2. LS is based on the physical damage. Does this include the elemental damage on a weapon? If yes, is the elemental damage of a weapon also increased by physical modifiers (like increased mace damage)?

3. Do +elemental damage passive increase the whole damage of the LS-projectiles or only half of it?

Thanks!

"

Atarus01 wrote:

Thanks for the replies, they help out a lot. Just a couple more points I feel like I need clarification on...

A) It was said that the added elemental damage nodes affect elemental damage modifiers on weapons, but do they affect elemental damage from skills? So, would it buff the 50% damage that is converted to lightning? Is that even worth buffing if it isn't buffing the entire attack?

B) Added melee physical damage support gem: Will this buff 100% of the damage, since the lightning damage is Based-on-Physical? Might this not be better than added elemental damage support if weapons don't have elemental damage modifiers? (sub question: are high end weapons only considered optimal with high elemental damage rolls?)

C) Is a Marauder's strength attribute (and thus the damage bonus) hefty enough at high levels to warrant the iron grip support for the projectiles?

A) Yes, they would buff the 50% damage converted to lightning. As for whether it's worth buffing, you need to do the math for your specific situation. For example, in a vacuum (meaning no other bonuses are present) a 10% increased physical damage with weapon node is better than a 15% increased elemental weapon damage node if your weapon doesn't have any elemental damage mods on it, because the 10% node buffs both parts of the 50/50 split but the 15% node only applies to the lightning portion so its effective increase is only 7.5%. However, if you had a weapon that dealt for example 10-20 physical and 10-20 elemental damage, the physical node would turn those 10-20 physical damage into 5.5-11 physical and 5.5-11 lightning damage after the split while the elemental damage from weapon would still remain at 10-20, for a total of 21-42 damage. The elemental node would however change the physical damage to 5-10 physical and 5.75-11.5 lightning damage after the split but it would also affect the lightning damage on the weapon, turning it into 11.5-23 damage. Your total damage would then be 22.25-44.5, which is a bit better than 21-42 that you'd get by taking the physical node. This, of course, gets way more complex when you have other nodes and weapon mods.

B) It should buff 100% of the damage, but only for the melee strike. It should have no effect at all on the projectiles. Weapon Elemental Damage, however, does affect the projectiles, and also affects any elemental damage present on the weapon itself. So again, you'd need to do the calculations for your specific situation.

C) If you want to deal ranged AoE damage with Lightning Strike, hell yeah!

"

vision2 wrote:

"

100 base Physical damage

On what exactly is Phsical Base Damage dependant?
The Weapon Physical damage?
Any passives?
Is it just what is written on the item itself? and is there any way to increase it?

That's the physical damage written on the weapon. Vipermagi used a simplified "100" for it, while real damage on weapons is x-y. There is no way to increase it, if by that you mean increase it directly in the Physical Base Damage * (additive mods) * multiplicative mods equation.

"

chrisguitar wrote:

But i'm unsure wether i should go further into the witch or marauder tree.


Or to be more clear: should i invest more in elemental (lightning) or physical damage passives (the same question applies to the gems which increase phyiscal or elemental damage)?

Some more specific questions:

1. I understand that physical modifiers which are not specifically marked as "melee" also work for the LS-projectiles (like "increases mace damage") is that true?

2. LS is based on the physical damage. Does this include the elemental damage on a weapon? If yes, is the elemental damage of a weapon also increased by physical modifiers (like increased mace damage)?

3. Do +elemental damage passive increase the whole damage of the LS-projectiles or only half of it?

Thanks!

Stick around the Marauder tree and go towards the Duelist and Templar trees for some neat survivability and damage boosts, and avoid int and dex nodes like the plague (ok, maybe get some dex if you're not using maces). The best pure damage bonuses are increased physical damage with weapon nodes - go for the weapon elemental damage cluster in the Templar tree only if you have a weapon with a lot of elemental damage. Non-weapon specific elemental damage nodes are a waste - the ones in the Templar tree are too small, and those in the Witch tree have a too high opportunity cost (you could invest the nodes you need to take on the way there into much better stuff).

1. That's true.

2. "Based on physical damage" does not include elemental damage on a weapon since that's elemental and not physical damage. Elemental damage on a weapon is not increased by the increased physical damage with weapon nodes since it's elemental and not physical.

3. Only the elemental portion of it - meaning 50% of the pysical damage converted to lightning, and any elemental damage present on the weapon.

Thanks for that in-depth reply, that was very helpful!

But it kinda threw me into an identity crisis regarding: why did i choose Templar over Marauder for a 2H-Lightning-Strike build?

Only good i can see in this is that i get access to Static Blows and the other two nodes which increase shock chance and duration (especially useful for a Resolute Technique build like mine).
And maybe Galvanic Hammer...

"

chrisguitar wrote:

But it kinda threw me into an identity crisis regarding: why did i choose Templar over Marauder for a 2H-Lightning-Strike build?

So you can go for a Lightning Strike staff templar that uses armor, mana and ES for example. That's what I'll do, in addition to my two-handed axe Lightning Strike marauder that uses blood magic and armor only. As a templar, you also have better access to elemental resists, the best elemental weapon damage cluster in the whole tree, etc. Each starting point has its own benefits :)

"

Exxar wrote:

"

chrisguitar wrote:

But it kinda threw me into an identity crisis regarding: why did i choose Templar over Marauder for a 2H-Lightning-Strike build?

So you can go for a Lightning Strike staff templar that uses armor, mana and ES for example. That's what I'll do, in addition to my two-handed axe Lightning Strike marauder that uses blood magic and armor only. As a templar, you also have better access to elemental resists, the best elemental weapon damage cluster in the whole tree, etc. Each starting point has its own benefits :)

Problem is: elemental weapon damage doesn't apply to the projectiles...
It's kind of contra-intuitive that physical damage modifiers are far more useful for an elemental attack like Lightning strike.

I will go for this now (90 points i hope that it is achievable):


Only thing i'm not sure about is, if i should take Blood Magic...