Double Strike + Dualwield = worst combo ever?

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CommodoX wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

What do you think the mechanics are functioning like? Because I have a funny feeling you don;t know the mechanics.

Of Dual Strike? Developer said in the Skillfeedback-Threa "crit is rolled once for the skill".

Crit is rolled once. Applied to both weapons. The weapons crit individually.

Dual Strike = Double Strike = Frenzy = EVERYTHING ELSE

As far as chance to crit goes. There is no magic "I crit more with this skill", they all crit at the rate listed across all attacks.

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Autocthon wrote:

Did I say it didn't work in maps?

Yes you did. "Until maps".

And how does Viper Strike interacts with crit stuff? It does DoT-damage (which you can't increase in the skilltree).

Yo uwant a skill taht alternates (for whatever reason). Viper Strike alternates.

And if you read the sentence "broken damage until maps" not "works until maps". Reading comprehension is fun.

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Autocthon wrote:

Yo uwant a skill taht alternates (for whatever reason). Viper Strike alternates.

Because if I have 2 weapons I should be able to use them one after one.
Viper Strike alternates but as a main skill for a CRIT build? If I want 300dps with lvl 60 maybe.

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Autocthon wrote:

And if you read the sentence "broken damage until maps" not "works until maps". Reading comprehension is fun.

True, my mistake.

But haven't seen any Viper Strike-Builds so far. Could be because Melee-Splash doesn't work with Viper Strike (according to the Skillfeedback-Thread) = Bullshit for main skill.

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CommodoX wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

Yo uwant a skill taht alternates (for whatever reason). Viper Strike alternates.

Because if I have 2 weapons I should be able to use them one after one.
Viper Strike alternates but as a main skill for a CRIT build? If I want 300dps with lvl 60 maybe.

What you mean to say is "If I want default attack damage * support gems +4k DPS at 60 maybe".

You DO NOT NEED TO ALTERNATE WEAPONS WHEN DUAL WIELDING. If you want a crazy dual wield crit build USE DUAL STRIKE.

Alternating weapons has no inherent benefit, it is WORSE than dual striking. You will crit at the same rate but deal HALF the damage per attack. This is not a difficult concept, and yet you've been arguing for four pages.

If you REALLY want a little aesthetic boost use frenzy. /thread

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Autocthon wrote:

Alternating weapons has no inherent benefit, it is WORSE than dual striking.

That's the problem - it shouldn't.

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CommodoX wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

Alternating weapons has no inherent benefit, it is WORSE than dual striking.

That's the problem - it shouldn't.

I just... Just...

Wow.

You are either the most brilliant troll or... I dunno.

Listen. I want you to stop trying to argue, stop trying to say anything for just a minute and consider what you're talking about.

When dual wielding most attacks alternate weapons. This means that the yattack at an attack speed equal to the average attack speed of your weapons. Some attacks, as you've noticed double strike does, do not alternate. This is because they're intended to be used wit ha single weapon, or to gain benefit from focusing on one weapon rather than a pair.

Dual strike, on the other hand, is intended to deal damage. That is all it does, nothing fancy. It does so by striking with both weapons at once. You see, if double strike alternated weapons, it would just be a REALLY SHITTY dual strike. Double strike is distinguihed by its ability to benefit from global offhand bonuses (dagger implicit crit is one of those) while requiring you to only keep one weapon up to date.

Dual Wielding alone grants +10% attack Speed. It is always more DPS that not dual wielding. You also get a bit if defense (because parry). Those are the perks. Dual wielding and using double strike means your double strike deals +10% more DPS. If you have an off-hand set of implicit modifiers (I prefer a dagger with high global crit) that means you also get those modifiers, which mean way more DPS than a shield. That is what the skill is intended to do.

Alternating attacks is nothing magical. You get more DPS just for dual wielding. You get even more DPS for dual striking. If you want to beat someone to detah like a duelist you double strike, if yo uwant crazy damage you dual strike, if yo uwant to alternate attacks you frenzy/Viper/Cyclone. there is nothing wrong with that. There is no magical "but dual wielding sucks because X", no matter what yo udo you are gaining damage just for equipping that other weapon. Unless you're alternating. Because alternating attacks means you average the DPS of the two weapons. So maybe hyou lose damage. That's just how not upgrading your weapons works.

Now stop trying to argue. For a REAL COHESIVE STATEMENT. Take your time. Stop going "but alternating should be good". Because alternating is good, Dual Strike is just better at damage, and double strike is just better at itemizing.

Come up wit ha REAL LOGICAL ARGUMENT. So far you have 4 pages of people trying to explain that everything you are saying is either wrong or close to it. And you trying to not pay attention to them.

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Autocthon wrote:

Some attacks, as you've noticed double strike does, do not alternate. This is because they're intended to be used wit ha single weapon, or to gain benefit from focusing on one weapon rather than a pair.

Why can't Double Strike not use Mainhand when there's only 1 weapons and alternate when there are 2 weapons?
I don't see the point in that now that there's Multistrike for fast hits.

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Because alternating is good, Dual Strike is just better at damage, and double strike is just better at itemizing.

So there are 2 skills left which gives me less DPS with no real benefits from dualwielding OR I have to waste 20 Exalts for Bringer of the Rain and stuff to get equal DPS like Dual Strike WITHOUT such items?

I need a dex-based skill (because Shadow/Ranger) for Dualwielding with alternating for a crit-dagger-build. Because Crit+Dagger+Dualwield-Nodes ARE in the fucking shadow/ranger-area.
So I thought "oh yeah, I'm sure they did something about Dualwielding since Closed Beta, let's have a look". And then it got akward (for GGG).

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CommodoX wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

Some attacks, as you've noticed double strike does, do not alternate. This is because they're intended to be used wit ha single weapon, or to gain benefit from focusing on one weapon rather than a pair.

Why can't Double Strike not use Mainhand when there's only 1 weapons and alternate when there are 2 weapons?
I don't see the point in that now that there's Multistrike for fast hits.

Did you not read anything.

If double strike alternated hands it would just be a REALLY TERRIBLE dual strike.

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So there are 2 skills left which gives me less DPS with no real benefits from dualwielding OR I have to waste 20 Exalts for Bringer of the Rain and stuff to get equal DPS like Dual Strike WITHOUT such items?

1) Double Strike gets at leats 10% bonus DPS from dual wielding. Before factoring smart off-hand choices. Also reave is in a similar situation (and is awesome)
2) All other attacks get at least +10% DPS from dual wielding as long as your weapons have similar DPS to each other. They also do special things.
3) Dual Strike does damage.

You continue to fail to see the entire point of the different skills.

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I need a dex-based skill (because Shadow/Ranger) for Dualwielding with alternating for a crit-dagger-build. Because Crit+Dagger+Dualwield-Nodes ARE in the fucking shadow/ranger-area.
So I thought "oh yeah, I'm sure they did something about Dualwielding since Closed Beta, let's have a look". And then it got akward (for GGG).

WHY do you need to alternate? What are you getting out of alternating weapons. It's just an aesthetic difference. Whether you alternate or not you get the same +10% AS and +15% block.

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Autocthon wrote:

WHY do you need to alternate? What are you getting out of alternating weapons. It's just an aesthetic difference. Whether you alternate or not you get the same +10% AS and +15% block.

For the same reason I don't to play a char that shits fireballs to his enemy. Or for the same reason I wouldn't play a female barb. RPG reasons.

I have 2 weapons, so it's common sense to me that there are viable (=end game viable=maps) ways to make it happen that I can alternate.

And I already said something about Reave if you would have read the thread. There is only 1 skill that is designed (=you need 2 weapons) for Dualwielding. I find that fucking bad for GGG after 2 years.

Dual Wield frenzy is map viable. Without flickerstrike.

If this is all about "RP" aesthetics, then you have nothing to complain about.

Alolowing attacks to use two weapons at once BREAKS THE MECHANICS OF THE GAME. Hell Dual Strike pretty much breaks damage on its own. Dual Heavy Strike? How about Dual Leap Slam?

Those don't ADD anything to the game. Every skill that works 1H is viable with dual wielding. Deal with it.

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Autocthon wrote:

Alolowing attacks to use two weapons at once BREAKS THE MECHANICS OF THE GAME.

Lolwut?

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Autocthon wrote:

Hell Dual Strike pretty much breaks damage on its own.

True.

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Autocthon wrote:

Dual Heavy Strike? How about Dual Leap Slam?

I don't see the problem, you hit twice but with lower DPS-weapons. Same for Leap Slam, you jump and hit twice instead of a big hit with an axe or a maul.
Where's the problem?

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Autocthon wrote:

Those don't ADD anything to the game.

It adds fun. I find that good in a 'game'.