An elegant way to balance Cast When Damage Taken

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Fusion_Power wrote:

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ggnorekthx wrote:

So... who is currently an owner of a level 20 CWDT gem? Just curious since it is obvious we've really tested this gem to prove that without a doubt it is completely unfair as-is...

Oh wait...

I see what you did there... XD

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kruemel2222 wrote:

I think you have totally missed the point. No clue how good a level 20 CWDT is for offensive use but it is extremely stupid that your char casts every single relevant defensive spell in the game whenever you take damage. For free. Without casting animations.

It's not fun when you have to perma cast youe Endurance Charges per hand. In the past My Melee Marauder basicly spent it's half time during fighting with casting Warlords Mark, Decoy Totem and Enduring Cry, took forever, was not fun and was the cause why I abandoned this guy. He's not a caster!
Now it finaly makes fun again to play a Melee Marauder and I want to have fun in the game, PoE is frustrating enough imho. Play solo, play self found and you know what I mean.
GGG must stop to listen to the 1% of pro gamers that abuse every useful skill in a way that GGG forces the skill to be nerfed. This affects us normal players that don't spent 24/7 in gaming.
First, they nerfed my beloved Bear Traps twice, then the 60% Aura stuff (not a big disadvantage in partys but again a big soloplay nerf) and now they should instantly nerf a little support gem that is not even usable for every build or every class (Ranged or dodge/evasion class with cast on damage taken? lol ) and on top of that can't be max leveled mostly to stay useful at all?

GGG, please keeep this skill as it is, don't kill again some fun out of the game. PoE is hard enough imho.

So you are saying lets leave something in the game and not change anything.
"If you don't like it, then just don't use it"

The problem is that its pointless having a level 1 only gem.

THAT is the problem.

No one is saying it shouldn't work at all, or that we should make it impossible to use, please stop with the strawman arguments.

But it DEFINITELY needs something to change, and we are trying to work out the best solution so that hopefully GGG will have a read, and as such won't make a bad decision regarding the change.

Because regardless, at the moment this is used entirely for defensive skills, at level 1 skill gem, with no reason to level the gem further

Cast when damage taken does not need a nerf. IT is the very reason why melee characters are viable now.

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andinuad wrote:

Cast when damage taken does not need a nerf. IT is the very reason why melee characters are viable now.

So you feel that it is perfectly fine that the skkillgem gets comparitvely worse as you level it for 99% of the usage it is being used for?

You think that we should have more 'level 1 only' skill gems?

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Real_Wolf wrote:

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andinuad wrote:

Cast when damage taken does not need a nerf. IT is the very reason why melee characters are viable now.

So you feel that it is perfectly fine that the skkillgem gets comparitvely worse as you level it for 99% of the usage it is being used for?

You think that we should have more 'level 1 only' skill gems?

Depends on what they contribute. In this case, even though it is a no-brain gem, what it does is so important that it needs to stay that way: it buffs melees in party play and it buffs solo play.

As for "level 1 only": Lol, you are talking to a person who had cleave (before they nerfed it to the ground) gem stuck at lv5 due to it being the most efficient point there (unless you used soul taker).

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andinuad wrote:

Cast when damage taken does not need a nerf.

Fine. I don't see anyone who wants to "nerf" CWDT in this thread. It's not overpowered and we all appreciate its benefits. What I see are players eager to keep their free lunch without paying any cost for it at all. If that is actually what you want, can you just say so without screaming bloody murder about so-called "nerfs"?

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RogueMage wrote:

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andinuad wrote:

Cast when damage taken does not need a nerf.

Fine. I don't see anyone who wants to "nerf" CWDT in this thread. It's not overpowered and we all appreciate its benefits. What I see are players eager to keep their free lunch without paying any cost for it at all. If that is actually what you want, can you just say so without screaming bloody murder about so-called "nerfs"?

It is not a free lunch. In nemesis, you either have to reach act 3 library in merciless, which is a big accomplishment there, or you have to pay 9-10 chaos.

There is no thing as a free lunch.

Oh ya, Nemesis is the only league that should matter when it comes to balancing, in case it wasn't a self-evident fact.

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andinuad wrote:

It is not a free lunch. In nemesis, you either have to reach act 3 library in merciless, which is a big accomplishment there, or you have to pay 9-10 chaos.

Don't be obtuse. We're not discussing what it take to acquire the gem, it's the nonexistent cost of using it that's the issue. The "free lunch" is using a lvl-1 gem that automatically casts skills at zero cost, and without interrupting your actions. No cost, no drawback, and no need to level it up. Ultimately, you can build a fully automated drone, a botter's dream come true.

So you are arguing that mana cost of cleave increasing with level, while its dps does not if you are doing ele cleave, is the reason that cleave is best to leave at level 5?

While at the same time saying that the 'free to cast' skill of CWDT is fine because of this other gem?

Really?

The reason you don't increase the cleave gem is because if you did so, it would cost you more mana, which is a bigger drain on resources, so its all resource management. if you could sustain it at level 20 you probably would for the same reason, its stronger then.


This gem you don't increase not because of any drain on resources, its not that you have to make a decision about whether or not its sustainable to your mana pool, health pool, or anything. its because it WORKS better at level 1 for its PRIMARY use of defensive skills that aren't dps skills.

And this will ALWAYS be the case, unless it has some inherent benefit to levelling.


Take for example your lovely cleave. Why do you not leave it at level 1? Why level it to level 5? Is it because you get a free dps increase to level it, while at the same time not having an increased mana cost? This means its pretty obvious that you should level it to level 5. Thats a decision you made based upon it getting better when levelled, but at level 6 its not gaining enough to be worth the increased mana cost is it?

Please do a similar analysis for levelling it from level 1->2, outside of dps skills that aren't used, and the 'odd one out' immortal call, when would you ever level this gem?

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andinuad wrote:

It is not a free lunch. In nemesis, you either have to reach act 3 library in merciless, which is a big accomplishment there, or you have to pay 9-10 chaos.

There is no thing as a free lunch.

Oh ya, Nemesis is the only league that should matter when it comes to balancing, in case it wasn't a self-evident fact.

By that logic, GGG shouldn't have removed the aura reservation trick bug exploit with Alpha's Howl and Blood Magic. That wasn't a free lunch either, because you had to pay to get Alpha's Howl, right?

The game is not supposed to be in beta anymore.i dont except huge balance changes at each patch like beta.imagine new players,starting chracters,build around skills,only to get nerfed in the next patch,or the one after.This looks unprofesional,and it is not acceptable to a released product,as it wasin beta.Yeah after a major expansion/patch after 6 months or so,but not in the same way it was in beta
Other than that,making it cost mana,with the increased reservation of auras it would be pretty much useless for CI melee.Life was severely buffed in the patch,CI melee was nerfed,since vaal pact was moved to new zealand.Assuming u could link it with blood magic,CWDT or your attack,is another hit for CI melee,just saying