Blood rage and chaos resistance

Look at it conversely.

Back in the past, non-CI characters (especially casters) couldn't run blood rage because 0% chaos res meant taking 3.8% of max life as damage per sec, and it is very tough to get 3.8% life regen. However, non-CI casters can do that now because it's now possible to get >0% chaos res from gear, and much easier to get at least 1% life regen from the tree.

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Invalesco wrote:

Look at it conversely.

Back in the past, non-CI characters (especially casters) couldn't run blood rage because 0% chaos res meant taking 3.8% of max life as damage per sec, and it is very tough to get 3.8% life regen. However, non-CI casters can do that now because it's now possible to get >0% chaos res from gear, and much easier to get at least 1% life regen from the tree.

*not couldn't, but was difficult. Did have a life build that used it as melee for the leech + frenzy, but build was fairly hurt by doing so (had duelist, templar and mara % healing nodes, and pretty much relied on the leech on huge aspd to stay alive)

Well Casters didn'T really need Blood Rage back then. Right now I'm not even sure if frenzy charges already provided cast-speed. So the only use would be discharge (which was pretty op at some time if I'm remembering correctly).

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Emphasy wrote:

Well Casters didn'T really need Blood Rage back then. Right now I'm not even sure if frenzy charges already provided cast-speed. So the only use would be discharge (which was pretty op at some time if I'm remembering correctly).

Actually, all CI builds did use Blood Rage back then. Each frenzy charge provides 5% increased cast speed. It was essentially free 15% cast speed for all CI builds.

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Invalesco wrote:

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Emphasy wrote:

Well Casters didn'T really need Blood Rage back then. Right now I'm not even sure if frenzy charges already provided cast-speed. So the only use would be discharge (which was pretty op at some time if I'm remembering correctly).

Actually, all CI builds did use Blood Rage back then. Each frenzy charge provides 5% increased cast speed. It was essentially free 15% cast speed for all CI builds.

I wasn't sure if frenzy charges always had the Cast-Speed part in it.

My problem with Blood Rage is that is has become so much stronger for CI with the addition of Ghost Reaver and is one of the reasons why CI-Melee is so incredible strong while CI-Caster sucks compared to other caster-solutions. It's simply free frenzy-charges and Life-Leech which means free attack-speed and no need for the life-leech gem even if you don't have any life-leech on your gear (although 6% is a bit low, but still it is free 6% life-leech).

The point however is that although it is still free 15% Cast-Speed it is so much more for CI-Melees, which already have Melee Damage on Full Life. They scale amazingly well and outperform any normal Melee-Char in terms of survivability and damage, while taking CI as a caster instead of EB just means that you cripple yourself terribly. Since Casters can make only defensive use of Auras they are even better of using BM than CI, since with Life and BM they at least are able to sustain their spells, something that is hard with CI and the usage of Mana. Right now CI seems like the worst choice for Casters and the best for Physical Melee (well if you plan to actually invest something into a char, since CI still needs a bit of investment).

Frenzy Charges have always given some amount of cast speed - this was to make sure frenzy charges are not worthless for casters; players or monsters.

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anubite wrote:

Frenzy Charges have always given some amount of cast speed - this was to make sure frenzy charges are not worthless for casters; players or monsters.

Yeah propably true. I honestly didn't play that long during CB and can't remember everything. Still it didn't change the point that Blood Rage is too cheap for the benefits it provides to Melee-CI, but not good enough for casters to actually make using CI better than EB or even simply go BM (or use the BM-Skillgem if you still want to use Auras).

First of all, playing melee CI in any league that is temporary is "non-viable".

Firstly, you must play the game as a lifer. Then, somewhere aronud level 60, 70 or 80, you must acquire perfect ES gear and then spend 20-30 respc points switching over to ES.

Then, you need an eye of chayula because as a melee CI person, you are stunned by literally every attack and your build is unplayable.

Then, you need dream fragments because you will be frozen for max duration from the tiniest cold wind.

Then, you need dispel shocked flasks or a tricone because of the same reason.

Then, you still need to be careful because if your leech doesn't exceed the damage being taken you can be killed.

You also can't use blood magic, so you need to manage your mana pool and mana leech.

Making a CI melee build is an absolute pain in the fucking ass - and the benefits are barely there.

Considering all the negatives and down sides with CI, Blood Rage is just a small bonus.

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anubite wrote:

Spoiler

First of all, playing melee CI in any league that is temporary is "non-viable".
Nope, playing CI melee in Dom

Firstly, you must play the game as a lifer. Then, somewhere aronud level 60, 70 or 80, you must acquire perfect ES gear and then spend 20-30 respc points switching over to ES.
Nope, playing CI melee in Dom since level 42 with no respec points spent

Then, you need an eye of chayula because as a melee CI person, you are stunned by literally every attack and your build is unplayable.
Nope, playing CI melee in Dom since level 42 with no respec points spent, no issues with being stunned

Then, you need dream fragments because you will be frozen for max duration from the tiniest cold wind.
Nope, playing CI melee in Dom since level 42 with no respec points spent, no issues with being stunned or frozen though cold is annoying so have a flask incase

Then, you need dispel shocked flasks or a tricone because of the same reason.
Nope, playing CI melee in Dom since level 42 with no respec points spent, no issues with being stunned or frozen though cold is annoying so have a flask incase. Shock isn't a problem as I can just get out of the fight when shocked, and its easy to tell enemies who may shock

Then, you still need to be careful because if your leech doesn't exceed the damage being taken you can be killed.
Nope, playing CI melee in Dom since level 42 with no respec points spent, no issues with being stunned or frozen though cold is annoying so have a flask incase. Shock isn't a problem as I can just get out of the fight when shocked, and its easy to tell enemies who may shock, and with such a huge ES buffer it helps relating to the regen. If in danger can pull back and 'health' fully regens after just a few seconds

You also can't use blood magic, so you need to manage your mana pool and mana leech.
Nope, playing CI melee in Dom since level 42 with no respec points spent, no issues with being stunned or frozen though cold is annoying so have a flask incase. Shock isn't a problem as I can just get out of the fight when shocked, and its easy to tell enemies who may shock, and with such a huge ES buffer it helps relating to the regen. If in danger can pull back and 'health' fully regens after just a few seconds. I do have to manage mana pool, but as a crit build thats easy, my mana pots are always full


Making a CI melee build is an absolute pain in the fucking ass - and the benefits are barely there.
Nope, playing CI melee in Dom since level 42 with no respec points spent, no issues with being stunned or frozen though cold is annoying so have a flask incase. Shock isn't a problem as I can just get out of the fight when shocked, and its easy to tell enemies who may shock, and with such a huge ES buffer it helps relating to the regen. If in danger can pull back and 'health' fully regens after just a few seconds. I do have to manage mana pool, but as a crit build thats easy, my mana pots are always full. Free blood rage and reduced number of passives in the tree towards ES to get the same sort of benefit is why it is worthwhile


Considering all the negatives and down sides with CI, Blood Rage is just a small bonus.

Main response in the quote. Overall CI could use a buff, as I have said before, but it isn't as dead in the water as many people want to make it seem, with their constant statements saying "you have to have x"

Well, you're in dom, so maybe from my perspective, in nemsis, it's totally non-viable. I'd like to hear about how many times you've died. I mean, I've done LOTS of CI melee builds -- not recently -- but it's an enormously frustrating experience to build and level and the payoff isn't that sweet. Making one that doesn't die once you take CI is... it's slow. You have to play at a snail's pace because even the slightest wrong move, or too many enemies at once? You're dead.

I'm not saying it can't work without some element or another... but you do need chayula. You do you do you do you do you do you do you do you do you do. There is no way in the world you can actually do merciless, or maps, without chayula or unwavering stance. You will get obliterated by anything that sneezes on you. You can barely grind fellshrine without chayula - you run the risk of certain death whenever you get near anything holding a bow.

I did CI melee builds back when CI gave 50% more ES -- even back THEN CI was a huge risk and undertaking (it was only "imbalanced" and "powerful" once you farmed that perfect ES gear). Now? In its current state? It's weak, barely justified by stuff like blood rage interaction and melee damage on full life.