Forge - Replacement for Vendor Formulas & More

Probably not many will agree with me, but I think the whole concept that Vendors have everything, but require a specific something to trade it, is a little off.

GGG should create a Forge (placeholder name) where we perform advanced crafting.

This allows improving the crafting into something a LITTLE more predictable.

How? Besides the current vendor formulas that would be usable in said forge, you'd also be able to add item + orb + gems to produce more desired results.
1 - Add a recipe that allows us to combine 3 Identical Gems into 1 Gem of +1% Quality.
So 3x 0%Q = 1x 1%Q; 3x 1%Q = 1x 2%Q, and so on.
1.1 - This recipe would NOT go beyond 5%Q.
2 - Allow us to SACRIFICE Gems in order to influence the results of random mod orbs like Alteration, Transmutation, Chaos, Exalted, Chance, Regal, etc.
2.1 - To do this, give each Item Mod an associated color/attribute:
Strength can be associated to +Str, +physical damage, +fire damage, life, armor
Dexterity can be associated to +Dex, +accuracy, +movement, +evasion, +cold damage
Intelligence can be associated to +Int, +spell damage, +lightning damage, mana, energy shield
2.2 - You can then place the desired Orb & a # of Gems equal to the number of Mods the Orb will influence:
alteration & transmutation = 1 to 2;
chance = 1 to 6; Exalted = 1;
Chaos/alchemy = 3 to 6
2.3 - Doing so increases the odds of getting (a) mod(s) associated with that/those gem(s) color(s).
2.4 - Higher Orbs, like Exalted, Chaos, and Alchemy, might require Quality Gems, like 3 to 5%, in order to have their results influenced at all.
2.5 - Chromatic Orb could also be influenced by this system, allowing you to sacrifice a # of gems equal to the number of slots, increasing the odds of getting that particular combination of slot colors, overriding the item's natural affinity.
3 - In all cases, higher quality on gems would provide SUBSTANTIALLY higher chance for the desired result to happen.

This means that, if properly tuned, this would make the system rewarding but costly enough that it will NOT make the acquisition of powerful items easy; but it will transform the frustrating crafting of this game into an actually engaging activity for everyone.
It will simply tone down the CASINO mentality of this game.

"

Probably not many will agree with me, but I think the whole concept that Vendors have everything, but require a specific something to trade it, is a little off.

True. But one character having everything, or the fact that your character knows how to forge everything, is also a little off =P

In all seriousness, crafting is really hard to implement without it feeling forced or gimmicky. The way it's working right now is amazing (imo). The only way it could be improved is expanding it (the exact way it has been doing).... and perhaps add some sort of list of all the "recepies". (don't like having to alt+tab every now and again, and having to browser the internets to remind myself of them all) <---- HAS to feel natural to the world and lore (e.g. a journal or something) else it's much better off without.
+1 if implemented correctly, -5 if implemented incorrectly (not worth the gamble or the time, especially the time)

Also, if making crafting more "reliable", they would have to lower the drop rates, else the marked will flood.





Edit: Phrasing

Well you defeated your own argument, Narv.

If you can get information about recipes outside the game, what's the problem with your character having "everything"?

Besides, that's not even what I'm talking about.
What I'm talking about, is that the vendor recipes aren't crafting, they're trading, so it assumes the vendor had the item you got stashed somewhere.

Whereas I'm suggesting that vendor recipes BECOME a form of advanced crafting, like the concept of alchemy or transmutation.

And as for your character knowing the recipes - isn't that part the same whether it's a forge or a vendor?
The fact you can get the information outside the game, how does that translate into the game?
It's simple: other "characters" who discovered recipes, shared the recipes, and now you know them all with your character.

Simple.

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough xD

What I mean by crafting is using Orbs on items and Selling specific items for specific orbs/flasks/rings/other (i.e 3-linked with 1 of each color gives a Chromatic, I think)

This is the important stuff, and the reason why I don't like the idea of a Forge: The crafting (according to my definition) is perfectly balanced (imo) and tampering with this will ruin the economy (unless you reduce drop rates). Someone at GGG has already announced a couple of very good changes where the player can manipulate some odds in their favour without breaking the economy.

The side note:
What I meant about the Journal was that finding these Vendor recepies should perhaps be available ingame, if they figure out a lore friendly way of doing so. Without having the usual: "Press C for crafting" which is gimmicky, forced and ruins the feeling of the game

What I meant about the One person who knows everything thingy:
I though you disliked the idea of all NPCs having all orbs/rings/flasks when selling stuff to them, and hence wanted a specific NPC or Crafting Station at which you could craft these.
I just wanted to point out that instead of every NPC knowing this would reduce it to either: ONLY your character knowing, or ONLY one NPC knowing, which feels weirder imo


Hope this makes everything clearer


Edit: I like the idea of being able to trade with all NPCs (avoids everyone standing at the same spot in towns).
Also, why should the character be good at crafting? feels more natural to have the Orbs (which is common knowledge how to use to the world), and well renowed tradesmen/tradeswomen who live in this harsh world and actually know their way around it and how to get their hands on rare items(cuz, else they'd be dead)

1 - guess is a good idea, i would rather have a system that aloud us to fuse found gems all the way up to 20%, aswell as an option to take an item intead of a gem from quests.

2 - what we need is less randomness when infusing an item, say the forger ask an alteration to turn a normal item into a rare one, then ask us to pick one of the folowing categories, that will determinate the kind of afixes that may spawn in the item:

offense: physical and elemental dmg boost, attack rating, raw dmg, weapon crit.
defence: hp, ES, armor, eva, ress, life/mana leach.
spell: elemental dmg, spell dmg, spell crit.
not sure if summoners should get their own categorie but the point is that this system is still random but at least we wont be getting pointless stuff, this hold special truth to stuff like staff that keep getting physical dmg and spell dmg/crit stats :/.

3 - point one adress the gem overpopulation issue

caboom, point 1 doesn't address gem overpopulation as easily as you think.
People can create chars and quickly zap through a few quests to get a bunch of quick gems, and repeat.

That's why I suggested that point 1 is capped at 5% quality.

The 3rd point is that since it's easy to get normal gems, the "effort" to spend gems on an exalted orb, for example, should be higher than usual.

Because, let's be honest, after 4 affixes, the odds you will get the mod you want by using an exalt with high quality gem of a specific color, is pretty high.

That's why there needs to be a somewhat meaningful cost.

The average ease to obtain the powerful items should be somewhat similar.
It's just that we need to stop the trend of spending dozens or hundreds of orbs to no effect.
Gems seem the perfect way to do it.

+1 on many of them. GGG has been looking for a gem sink anyways. I even think the first recepie could go beyond 5%, as the recepie would get more expensive as the rewards increase give the players the options. It would get insanely expensive as you get into higher % quality. If you have a 19% gem it would requiere over 2 billion 0% gems to make 2 more 19% gems that you can add to your existing gem.

"

Nurvus wrote:

caboom, point 1 doesn't address gem overpopulation as easily as you think.
People can create chars and quickly zap through a few quests to get a bunch of quick gems, and repeat.

That's why I suggested that point 1 is capped at 5% quality.

i said only found gems could be used to upgrade, quest gems cant be used to upgrade.

is actualy quite simple, found gems should be all 1-15% quality, quest gems should all be 0% quality, then make that upgrade can only be made with 1%+ quality gems and problem solve

But, Caboom, what about all the gems everyone found so far?
Can they track and retroactively change them to 1% if they are still 0%?

And is it really fair to make cruel & merciless, or even act II and III gem rewards not available for forge recipes?

If you want to make gems non-available for forge, I think only the ones up to the Rhoa's Nest would make sense.
The time it takes to get the rest would be better spent farming with your best account.

Since Quality Gems that you find are usually 6%Q or higher, that means if the recipe only works up to 5%Q, it doesn't devalue GCP, while adding some gem sink.