Arc & Chain Feedback - Bouncing Off You & More

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Nurvus wrote:

I think Arc - and to an extent, Chain (Support Gem) - could use some love.

Bouncing Off You
If Arc could bounce off you (without hurting you and using up 1 Chain/Hit everytime it hits you), it means you can hit isolated enemies multiple times (twice by default, and three times with Chain).
It would still only deal 2*50%=100% damage (bouncing off you once), but it would make it somewhat reasonable.

So the following property would be added to the Skill:
- Chains off you without dealing damage when no other enemies are in range.

Arc vs Chain
First, Chain (Support Gem), in general, is a little lackluster.
It doubles mana cost, and halves damage dealt, giving you a starting 25% mana efficiency.
Then, it triples the hits, bringing it to 75% mana efficiency.
However, since mechanics like Burn, Freeze and Shock depend on damage dealt, you're really penalizing yourself twofold.

Second, but just as important, Arc, the only non-projectile skill that works with Chain (Support Gem), synergizes extremely poorly with it.
It becomes half as strong, and adds 66% more hits, resulting in lower damage total.
From 3*50%=150% damage, you end up with 5*25%=125% damage.
Not only you deal less overall damage, each individual hit is half as strong.
Since Shock duration is based on damage dealt, it means it will last alot less as well.
To top it off, you're spending twice as much mana.

So I strongly suggest making Arc interact better with "+X Chain" effects.

Suggestion #1 - Give Arc the following properties:
- Chains 1 time. (instead of 2)
- Chains twice the normal amount of times. (bringing it back to 2)

Result:
- Arc behaves exactly the same without Chain (Support Gem).
- Chain (Support Gem) behaves exactly the same without Arc.
- Arc and Chain (Support Gem) synergize better, because instead of +2 Chain, Arc ends up getting +4 Chain because it chains twice the normal amount of times.

As a result, the default amount times it Chains would be 2*1= 2 times - no change here.
With Chain (Support Gem), it chains 2*(1+2)= 6 times, instead of 4. This means it deals 7*25%=175% total damage instead of 5*25%=125%, compared to the default 3*50%=150%.
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Suggestion #2 - Give Chain Support the following properties:
- 25% Less Damage. (instead of 50% Less Damage)
- 20% Less Projectile Damage, for a combined total of 40% Less Projectile Damage.
EDIT: or - 30% Less Projectile Damage, for a combined total of 47.5% Less Projectile Damage.


Result:
75% non-Projectile Damage. (only Arc benefits from this at the moment)
60% Projectile Damage. EDIT: or 52.5% Projectile Damage.
Mana Multiplier becomes more reasonable.
It becomes more synergic with Arc.

Final Result (Suggestions #1 & #2 Combined):
Arc + Chain hit 7 times at 37.5% damage efficiency = 7*37.5%= 262%.
In terms of total damage, it's a 74% increase over the default spell, but accounting for the fact each hit is weaker, thus less effective in terms of Stun and Shock, and that it costs twice as much mana, I say it's a fair deal.

Adding my "Bouncing Off You" into the mix:
You become able to hit single targets for 4*37.5%=150% damage (bounces 3 times off you).
It becomes a reasonable - yet mana expensive - spell against isolated enemies.

It's still inferior to Shotgun Casters for single targets, but the difference becomes less dramatic.

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wicca369 wrote:

I would suggest a Keystone, but its really only affecting 1 spell... And i dont really like the idea of it being on a unique, because the spell honestly could use a bit of adjustment in its favor. So changing the gem and spell desc. seems the best choice IMO.

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Nurvus wrote:

Suggestion #1 - Give Arc the following properties:
- Chains 1 time. (instead of 2)
- Chains twice the normal amount of times. (bringing it back to 2)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Nurvus wrote:

Suggestion #1 - Give Arc the following properties:
- Chains 1 time. (instead of 2)
- Chains twice the normal amount of times. (bringing it back to 2)

This is my suggestion, but improved: you shifted the changes to Arc instead of putting them on Chain, which is several times more logical.

I am truly impressed.

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aleksandros wrote:

I guess i'll comment on this.

Chain is fine as it is. With some skills, like Lightning Arrow, it's amazing. With other skills, not so amazing. But guess what? That's how support gems work. Making a single support gem amazing for every skill isn't "balancing", it's "i like this support gem, but it doesn't quite work for my build, so let me make a post about how it's bad so i can get it changed to suit my purposes"