About IIQ / IIR, wall of whites etc

So we have this annoying problem with way to many white items dropping when you stack IIQ and/or party up.

And then it hit, why do we even have IIQ? The "other" arpg only has increased gold and increased magic.

Why not change IIQ to increased currency items? The only real downside is that it would be hard to find high level whites and and items "born" as 5l/6l (so that might need tweaking).

And while we are at it, change maps to have 3 properties depending on mods:
- Increased currency drop
- Increased item rarity
- Increased map drop

Thoughts?

i would like to have an option that allows you to filter white items with a few more specialized filters.
for example: filter all white item except 4-6 linked / 4-6 sockets / only show jewelry etc.. i guess that wouldnt be too difficult to implement.

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Funcrusher wrote:

i would like to have an option that allows you to filter white items with a few more specialized filters.
for example: filter all white item except 4-6 linked / 4-6 sockets / only show jewelry etc.. i guess that wouldnt be too difficult to implement.

I'm pretty sure Chris or Mark said they would like to remove the filter options completely - I kinda agree with them, filtering only hides the problem.

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Skizo wrote:

And then it hit, why do we even have IIQ? The "other" arpg only has increased gold and increased magic.

Why not change IIQ to increased currency items?

Splitting MF into two mechanics (IIQ/IIR) adds a lot more diversity to the game than if just one or the other existed.

- Quant affects EVERYTHING but is less available on gear (rarity mods have higher max). So, if you're trying to generate GCPs by finding qual gems to trade/vendor, quant is where you should turn.

- Rarity only affects blue/rare/unique items, and there's some ceiling to how much you could make use of. More on this later, part of why having two separate MF stats is good. But anyway, rarity is more available on gear. If you're trying to farm up large stacks of fusings, rarity is your friend.

- The two effects have multiplicative synergy. That is, having high quant makes your rarity yield far more rares/uniques than you would without it. Cool. So rarity and quant together have a lot more value than just one or the other alone.

- That there are two independent stats lets GGG set the numbers on rarity low enough. Ex: since you can only get 26 rarity per slot where it's available, you'll never run into a situation where 100% of your items are blue or better. In this game that'd be undesirable. There's no need to implement some sort of artificial diminishing returns, there's little to no MF biasing, etc.

In D3 the frequency of 5 and 6-affix rares dropping is needlessly tiny. But adding 300% MF makes those most-coveted drops far beyond 300% more likely. It's much closer to 500% or 600%; those extra high-class rare drops edge out more and more of your low-quality 4-affix drops. MF "biasing" favors higher class rares as you stack MF - meaning any "option" to stack MF or not is an illusion. You absolutely have to stack MF. It's built into the system that way. You can derive these numbers from the game guide's page on magic find, with a small exercise in probability.

First, suggestions designed to make this game more like D3 (especially openly) - well, they aren't very popular.

Under the current system, magic find stats have increasing gains, they never run into any kind of ceiling, and it's quite clear how frequently you're going to get the highest class of rare to drop. I'd say they circumvented the problems other ARPGs have quite nicely.

The item clutter "problem" isn't really a problem at all. Hit z.

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Zakaluka wrote:

Under the current system, magic find stats have increasing gains and never run into any kind of ceiling. I'd say they circumvented the problems other ARPGs have quite nicely.

Huh? Okay first what is this problem that other ARPG's have
that a ceiling less MF value fixes and second you never addressed the real heart of the MF'ing problem. That being that drops will be balanced with MFing gear in mind (that is if the devs care about game balance which im pretty sure they do). this is really a problem when one is still lvling through difficulties as your loot pool is limited and your current gear will become "weaker" the more hihger level loot you find.

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Zakaluka wrote:

The item clutter "problem" isn't really a problem at all. Hit z.

I disagree. Item cluster is a huge problem in this game and GGG is better to come up with a solution before the public launch of the game.

In the last couple of days, I was doing maps with full party and we were all annoyed by the sheer amount of items on the ground. So many items that we couldn't see anything else. So many items that picking the item you want was either very tricky or impossible at all. It's just ridiculous. Sure, you can filter white or even filter all items, but you don't want to do that because some the most valuable items (6L, 5L) are white items.

I didn't like Diablo 3 all that much but I didn't notice this particular problem when I was playing it. And when I think about it, the reason for that must be instanced loot : You only see your loot. not everyone's loot. That way, there's a lot less loot on the screen.

So, by making loot instanced, you not only elimates ninja and "fights for loot" problems, you also solves item clutter problems.

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Velkor wrote:

Sure, you can filter white or even filter all items, but you don't want to do that because some the most valuable items (6L, 5L) are white items.

If you 'filter all' with Z, you can still hit Alt and see all your precious white items.

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wiggin wrote:

If you 'filter all' with Z, you can still hit Alt and see all your precious white items.

Once again, it's not a good solution. First, by doing that, you risk missing the valuable rares/orbs/uniques when they drop - before they disappear, letting your team mates grap them. Also, as soon as you hit Z, the items fills up the screen and it becomes hard and tedious to find what you are looking for.

There must be a better solution. However, it's not implemented yet.

This is not true, you simply hit alt to check loot and that's it. Maybe it is better for ninjas to have the loot visible permanently but I don't care about them. However I do agree with the original statement about amount of loot, I was just pointing out currently implemented possibilities.

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Velkor wrote:

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wiggin wrote:

If you 'filter all' with Z, you can still hit Alt and see all your precious white items.

Once again, it's not a good solution. First, by doing that, you risk missing the valuable rares/orbs/uniques when they drop - before they disappear, letting your team mates grap them. Also, as soon as you hit Z, the items fills up the screen and it becomes hard and tedious to find what you are looking for.

There must be a better solution. However, it's not implemented yet.

Correct Velkor.

There are a few problems that need to be addressed. Blizzard with WoW & D3 had to solve the exact same problems. Namely:

- How to prevent ninja-looting (D2 encouraged this anti-social behavior.) PoE has already (mostly) solved this problem. (Torchlight 2 solved this problem by making ALL drops local / "instanced" -- that is only visible to the player -- instead of "global" like D2/PoE.)
- How to minimize clutter so that everyone can see what dropped? (D2 has a bug where it won't display more then 32 items. You were forced to move around the screen to see ALL the massive drop sizes.)
- How to determine who gets what? PoE has (mostly) solved this problem.
- How to allow players to filter by item type, and advanced filtering (by socket type, mods, etc)

The WoW solution was to instead of dropping everything on the ground (clutter) to arrange it in a vertical list. This way everyone gets to see everything that dropped. The _disadvantage_ was a psychological one. Pay-outs don't seem as "satisfying". When you see 3+ yellows / 5+ items drop you get a rush of "Oooh! That was a good roll". What I'm saying is that Blizzard's solution doesn't seem as "fun" as D2/PoE solution.

The Need/Greed/MasterLooter option solves the problem of who gets what. (If you don't trust your Guild's Master Looter you have bigger problems to worry about.)

I agree that additional filters are STILL needed. Why? To minimize the time you spend wasting trying to filter out the SNR -- the signal from the noise -- the trash from the wants/needs. There are (almost) always certain types of gear that you want depending on your sub-goals. I haven't seen any ARPGs implement a better UI (yet).