Standard league Alchemy:chaos rates. Scouring.

most of the value should come from scouring, which is a rather underrated and particularly useful and powerful orb.

i mentally value them at ~.6 chaos. i tend to hoard a lot of them tbh.

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mazul wrote:

One anecotal evidence: extremely few people in trade chat ever shout "trading my chaos for your scouring+alch". That pretty much says it all about how much people really craft with chaos and alch+scouring combo :D.

So it is more reasonable to assume that using them as a make-belief currency is the predominant use in Path of Exile economies (at the very least standard one XD).

I suppose the last explanation would be that people do use a lot of chaos for crafting but they are too lazy/stupid to use alch+scouring which would be cheaper in current economy. But I very much doubt that XD.

Why would someone do a trade that changes nothing? And no, that doesn't say it all because nobody is using it as a make-belief currency, nothing points to that.

Yes people may be too lazy to scour+alch, but that shouldn't lower the price of alchs for the many reasons I stated before.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Besides the fact that scouring + alch should be worth more than a chaos, the alch recipe allows for people to o crewte massive amounts of tgat orb. Thus why they're not worth a lot.

The chaos recipe isn't especially demanding either and should even out the two.

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tikitaki wrote:

most of the value should come from scouring, which is a rather underrated and particularly useful and powerful orb.

i mentally value them at ~.6 chaos. i tend to hoard a lot of them tbh.

Well, scouring can't go above 2:1 with regret due to vendor prices so..

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HandsomeBear wrote:

Why would someone do a trade that changes nothing? And no, that doesn't say it all because nobody is using it as a make-belief currency, nothing points to that.

(...)

Because chaos is currently worth more than scouring+alch. So people who craft, would definitely want to trade their chaos for scouring+alch to make their crafting cheaper.

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mazul wrote:

"

HandsomeBear wrote:

Why would someone do a trade that changes nothing? And no, that doesn't say it all because nobody is using it as a make-belief currency, nothing points to that.

(...)

Because chaos is currently worth more than scouring+alch. So people who craft, would definitely want to trade their chaos for scouring+alch to make their crafting cheaper.

Nobody would sell 2alch+1scour for a chaos because they'd see that it's stupid. People don't seem to notice that when they're sold separately tho.

I'm done with this it doesn't seem like there's any logic to it anyway. I'll just keep all my alchs and use them for myself rather than trading since the trade value is below it's practical value when compared to other orbs.

/thread

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HandsomeBear wrote:

"

tikitaki wrote:

most of the value should come from scouring, which is a rather underrated and particularly useful and powerful orb.

i mentally value them at ~.6 chaos. i tend to hoard a lot of them tbh.

Well, scouring can't go above 2:1 with regret due to vendor prices so..

This does not follow.

You cannot turn regrets into scouring orbs, you can only turn 2x scouring orbs into 1x regret.

Most people consider a regret to be worth /less/ than a chaos, not more.

Most of the orb recipes, with MAYBE the exception of Alteration -> Jeweler -> Fusing are a net loss in currency EG you end up with "less" than what you started with in terms of market value if you use said recipe. It's not an even "exchange rate" -- the vendor is offering you a trade and you can choose to take it or not. In this case it serves as a lower bound meaning 2x scourings are worth AT LEAST as much as a regret orb, because the vendor offers that. It doesn't mean 2x separate scourings are worth at most a regret, since you cannot just take your regret and turn it into a scouring. That's not an available trade.

Even in the case of Alterations, I think just about everybody would prefer to have 8 alterations than 1 fusing, simply because you can CHOOSE to turn them into a jeweler or fusing if you want (which is obviously useful because these orbs all do different things...), but you cannot convert "backwards" from fusing to alteration without spamming chat and trading around...

Anyway: I personally would NEVER turn scourings into regret orbs unless there was some sort of explosion in regret orb value.

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HandsomeBear wrote:

...
I'm done with this it doesn't seem like there's any logic to it anyway.
...

Well, another proof that the homo oeconomicus is a myth.

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tikitaki wrote:

"

HandsomeBear wrote:

This does not follow.

You cannot turn regrets into scouring orbs, you can only turn 2x scouring orbs into 1x regret.

Most people consider a regret to be worth /less/ than a chaos, not more.

Most of the orb recipes, with MAYBE the exception of Alteration -> Jeweler -> Fusing are a net loss in currency EG you end up with "less" than what you started with in terms of market value if you use said recipe. It's not an even "exchange rate" -- the vendor is offering you a trade and you can choose to take it or not. In this case it serves as a lower bound meaning 2x scourings are worth AT LEAST as much as a regret orb, because the vendor offers that. It doesn't mean 2x separate scourings are worth at most a regret, since you cannot just take your regret and turn it into a scouring. That's not an available trade.

Even in the case of Alterations, I think just about everybody would prefer to have 8 alterations than 1 fusing, simply because you can CHOOSE to turn them into a jeweler or fusing if you want (which is obviously useful because these orbs all do different things...), but you cannot convert "backwards" from fusing to alteration without spamming chat and trading around...

Anyway: I personally would NEVER turn scourings into regret orbs unless there was some sort of explosion in regret orb value.

nonsense!

Alts can alway be turned to fusings, yes, but alts take a lot more space in your stash, and you cant safely pay more than 1200 alts for single item (equals to 2 exa). Ans since fusings are used much more often, than alts, people tend to convert alts to fusings.

2 scouring are worth more than 1 regret, but once again, it's because scourings are used much more often, than regrets.

i would never ever turn alts into fusings to conserve stash space.

i have had over a tab of alts before. alts are awesome.

The argument that Alch + Scour > Chaos rests on the premise that Scourings do something other than turn Alchs into Chaos; if that's all they do, then Chaos just save you clicks and are better. And although this is subject to change, the other uses for Scouring took a nosedive with the release of the Eternal Orb, which combos far better with Exalts. The other two applications are failed regals (which faces fierce competition from Chaos Orb itself), and failed Chances. In both cases the key question is whether the crafter is building on a 5L/6L base, or simply building on a non-descript white item with intent to Jeweler and/or Fuse later. Given the declining price of Alchs and the near-Chaos value of Scout+Alch, Scours are almost always worth far more than these nondescript whites, so these methods are rarely used; the exceptions are naturally dropped 5/6Ls on items like Occultist's Vestments, which are amazingly rare (and irrelevant to Kaoms Chancing). As such, the only thing Scours are really good for is turning Alchs into two-click Chaos, which is a bit of a pain since you can't shift-click to semi-automate the process... hence the lower value.

When Act 3.5 is released, you can expect endgame maps to be expanded past 77, and very likely new base items. The relative scarcity of these new base items should cause a temporary upward spike in Scouring values. I advise taking advantage of Scouring's current low price and sell high later.