GGG stance on "Mules" (Multi-Boxing to store gear, improve exp and loot drops)

The devs do it the way they do for a reason, if you're level 70 you should be rewarded for playing with a gimped, level 58 player. And if you're level 58, you should be punished for playing with a player of a much higher level. It's easier for the level 58 because he has a high level helping him. Like I said, they did it this way for a reason, it just makes sense.

The solution is to put a cap on the percentage of shared exp, like I said earlier. If you're in with a level 70 and you're level 70, you get an even split. If you're in with a level 60, you get 58.9% of the experience earned (note: this barely makes a 2 party team worth it, as mobs give 175% of the exp, but you only get 58.9% of it, which is really a 3% bonus from killing the same mob in a single party, without the hassle of him having 50% more health). With a level 50, you get 78.1%. If you're in with a level 2, you get 99.995% of the experience earned. Cap the highest share to 70% or 80% and then it's no longer a big deal that you're running with a level 1/2, as you can earn exp just as fast with a few mid level 50s in with you.

I don't imagine that most people (outside of ladder) really care how quickly other players are leveling up - at least I don't. The issue is that multi-boxing inflates the supply of items in the game, which has an effect on the value of the gear that you find.

If you are fighting harder monsters for the experience, I'm personally fine with this; it's an issue that doesn't really affect anyone else. But if you're doing it to get better gear more quickly, then you're creating an unfair advantage.

The idea that playing multiplayer makes the drops better is a bit exaggerated. Multiplayer games scale the drops because three people shouldn't have to share one players' worth of items; it discourages cooperative play and is thus the antithesis of the purpose of a multiplayer game. The scaling of the drops is a correction for that: that there's 3x the loot for three times the players, but the idea behind it is that if each player is keeping their share of the loot, then each player is still only really getting one players' worth of drops. It seems to me that the implication behind this model is that the increase in difficulty really isn't supposed to lead an increase in overall item quality. (I suppose it's debatable because it's only my inference, but that's the way it makes sense to me.)

With multiboxing, however, it's one player getting three times the drops. Yes, you're playing harder material, but as I pointed out above, the reward for greater difficulty is supposed to be more experience, not better items.

Yes, multiboxing feels wrong to me, so that's driving any bias in my argument. My personal feeling is that the flavor of the game is that we each have a single player we're controlling, (not a party like Dragon Age) and that in this respect one person playing a whole party at a time feels like it runs counter to the design of the core game mechanic.

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Laimbrane wrote:

If you are fighting harder monsters for the experience, I'm personally fine with this; it's an issue that doesn't really affect anyone else. But if you're doing it to get better gear more quickly, then you're creating an unfair advantage.

50% more hp for each person in the party beyond the first and 50% more item quantity for each person beyond the first.

What does this mean? It means that damage done per item is exactly the same whether you have 1 person or 6. If someone can kill a mob in a 6 person party in 3.5 seconds, they would be able to kill a single mob in a solo instance in 1 second. The 6 person mob drops 350% of normal item drops, and takes 350% of the time to kill.

All that you're doing is getting more items per map, not more items per time investment.

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TheRabbit303 wrote:

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Laimbrane wrote:

If you are fighting harder monsters for the experience, I'm personally fine with this; it's an issue that doesn't really affect anyone else. But if you're doing it to get better gear more quickly, then you're creating an unfair advantage.

50% more hp for each person in the party beyond the first and 50% more item quantity for each person beyond the first.

What does this mean? It means that damage done per item is exactly the same whether you have 1 person or 6. If someone can kill a mob in a 6 person party in 3.5 seconds, they would be able to kill a single mob in a solo instance in 1 second. The 6 person mob drops 350% of normal item drops, and takes 350% of the time to kill.

All that you're doing is getting more items per map, not more items per time investment.

False.

This does not count several factors: time moving between groups of mobs, the fact that AoE damage can hit more mobs if they are living longer to get more clumped up, additional cushion for DoT effects to begin to matter, effects that involve % of life (such as Detonate Dead, and Minion Instability when used on spirits and converted creatures), the massively increased Flask Refilling rate (a godsend for Diamond Flask users), and just the fact that a creature who takes 2 hits to kill normally will likely take fewer than 7 hits to kill when at 350%.

In all actuality, it loot to time investment would probably be doubled or more, especially if the build is *really* that good.

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lukeiy wrote:

I think the reason some people consider multi-boxing cheating is due to the fact that it is not available to everyone.

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danos wrote:

The current situation is pretty much pay2win, where people who can buy a bunch of laptops or a powerful enough computer to run multiple instances of the game at once get more loot.

I can only play for a maximum of two hours a day. Therefore, I would like to request that anyone who plays for more than two hours a day should gain no XP or items past the two hour mark (rares/uniques/currency orbs should still drop, but burst into flames when the player tries to pick them up), because it's just not fair that people should get more just because they have more time to play. Also, on some days I'm too lazy to play, so maybe on those days nobody gets any XP or items, just a suggestion.

Time is money, after all. Those with the luxury of more time should not be rewarded unfairly, since this is not a pay2win game.

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Karcaroth wrote:

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lukeiy wrote:

I think the reason some people consider multi-boxing cheating is due to the fact that it is not available to everyone.

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danos wrote:

The current situation is pretty much pay2win, where people who can buy a bunch of laptops or a powerful enough computer to run multiple instances of the game at once get more loot.

I can only play for a maximum of two hours a day. Therefore, I would like to request that anyone who plays for more than two hours a day should gain no XP or items past the two hour mark (rares/uniques/currency orbs should still drop, but burst into flames when the player tries to pick them up), because it's just not fair that people should get more just because they have more time to play. Also, on some days I'm too lazy to play, so maybe on those days nobody gets any XP or items, just a suggestion.

Time is money, after all. Those with the luxury of more time should not be rewarded unfairly, since this is not a pay2win game.

That sums it up xD...

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lukeiy wrote:

I think the reason some people consider multi-boxing cheating is due to the fact that it is not available to everyone.

I think this is all quite nonsense.
Just consider not makeing new account and level 1 character just to party with. You can anytime just ask and party with another PLAYER and just go on solo as well as that other player. What iis the difference? There is no difference.
If GGG should do something against that, what would they do with those players just grouping up and going solo? They can do absolutely nothing and they must not do it. It is freedom of choice and doesn't affect anyone, as anyone can group up, just call out in global chat.

Just my 2 cents on matter :
Thing is ppl are looking wrongly at this (especialy multi boxers and yes I dont like multiboxing ),people should group becasue its fun to play together not coz it gives more loot ( mobs NEED to be stronger and "lootier" so they're not to easy and so there is enough drop to share)
Lots of people just see : omg god it givess better loot need to multi.

IMO lonly player should never play content made "by name" for group, if anything there should be "player x" command but leading only to strongr mobs but no increase in drop, so no one abuses this for loot and those wanting more chalenge will get one.
Hell if not for the fact of not enough loot to share I would make it apply this way by default in every group

Mobs dificulty should scale stronger with each added player (not just hp/shield, also at some point added abilities/on death efects like tar ), 6 man party is way more crazy strong strong than just 2 man (snowball effect I would call it ) so mobs should answer to that somehow and that would made 1 player mutliboxing full pt not happen that often ( also I find 6 man pt too much, there should be max 4 men partys, but thats just me :p )