Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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gonzaw wrote:

Also Vooodu you haven't responded to any single point I made, nor to any direct question I asked you.

Do you really expect me to take you seriously when you can't even answer simple questions?
If you somehow missed them, then I advise you not to post so much flaming and bitching so posts like mine don't get buried and never get seen by you ;)

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EndOfEnds wrote:

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gonzaw wrote:

Also Vooodu you haven't responded to any single point I made, nor to any direct question I asked you.

Do you really expect me to take you seriously when you can't even answer simple questions?
If you somehow missed them, then I advise you not to post so much flaming and bitching so posts like mine don't get buried and never get seen by you ;)

I'm noticing the same thing. He only ever responds to the flame posts against him or FFA, and completely ignores the ones that are actually trying to provide input to the discussion.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

I find it sad people can't appreciate the developers vision for this game and it's world.

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mibuwolf wrote:

Side note: Timers wasn't their vision. It was a change based on previous feedback. Imagine how bad the thread would be right now if they had not listened back then and instead kept it true to their vision.

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mibuwolf wrote:

You guys bickering over what is/isn't ninja looting is baffling.

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Vooodu wrote:

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gonzaw wrote:

Also Vooodu you haven't responded to any single point I made, nor to any direct question I asked you.

Do you really expect me to take you seriously when you can't even answer simple questions?
If you somehow missed them, then I advise you not to post so much flaming and bitching so posts like mine don't get buried and never get seen by you ;)

Wha.. Wha.. Whaaat? lol



Ok man, what simple question do you want me to answer? You make it sound important so shoot.

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gonzaw wrote:

Voodu, and basically everybody that's against any suggestion regarding this ever, please answer these question:

Do you think the complaint many people have is legitimate? Do you think it's legitimate enough for GGG to try to "fix" it (somehow) in the future?

If you don't think so, do you at least acknowledge this mechanic seriously turns off several players, and makes the game much less enjoyable to them?
Do you at least realize their POV and why it turns them off?

Do you care about such a "little" mechanic bothering so many people or not?
Do you care about those people having a better enjoyment of the game, or do you just want the system as it is and not care about those people?

Do you think there is no way the system can be improved so those people get to enjoy the mechanic, without destroying the "core" features you guys (and GGG) advocate, or without you yourself losing enjoyment in the game?
Do you think it's not even worth it to seek such solution?


I get the feeling this is just an ego battle between people or something and the discussions are so all over the place it's not funny.
Please answer those core questions above, so we can push this discussion into meaningful places.



I want to be straight, in-game I don't give a shit about this system.
1)I don't really party (I just play solo) so this doesn't bother me at all in the game
2)When I do party, I don't give a shit about the dropped loot or if someone "ninjas" it or not. You can ninja all my stuff as you want and I'll be okay with it because it was my fault for not getting the item fast enough.

However, I acknowledge there is a problem for other people and I want it fixed so other people get to enjoy the game more, even if it has 0 impact on me.

I think it's either selfish or apathetic to ignore an issue you "have no problems with" if 60% of the player base does actually have problems with it.
This issue is "big" enough that it severely puts players off, enough to quit the game.
That's how "serious" it is.

That's enough to at least consider all points of views and rationally and systematically determine which ones are legitimate, which ones are just "whiny noobs", and determine what possible solutions it can have.
This way this game can get better, for everybody that plays it. This way the game can be fun for everybody.
Not only fun, but immersive and engaging


For instance, other than "lol I don't want no rules", nobody even tried to criticize my solution (the "Party inventory" one)
Yes, it may be bad, it may not work, but if nobody even tries to state why then it'll just fade to oblivion, when it has a chance of actually working and maybe fixing all these problems without any negative repercussions.
Will it? I dunno. I think it may, because I suggested it, but if it has no feedback, even from the guys that apparently just want to discard every suggestion regarding it, we can't know.
This is not a sane attitude for a feedback/suggestion/discussion environment.

What about other suggestions?

Here are 3 suggestions I approve a priori and can fix the problem at least partially:
1) If someone steals "your" loot, be able to kill him in a PvP match
2) Let the party leader choose the loot system when creating a party
3) Create a party inventory that's somehow handled between the party to see which member gets what loot
4) Hey, I'll add a new suggestion. Create different types of parties. Create a "public cut-throat party" which is supposed to be a bunch of strangers killing monsters. Here there is minimal communication bewteen party members, there is FFA loot, etc. Then create a "group play" party, which is supposed to be a close group of players actively working together as a party to advance in the game. Here there should be rules, there should be heavy communication between players, the loot system should be "balanced" in a way that benefits the group the most, etc. This way we differentiate the 2 "types" of group play, the cut-throat "Kill monsters but stay out of my way" one, and the "Let's play together and overcome obstacles like a group!" one.

These suggestions, in their raw form, yes, are not that "great".
That's what feedback is for. I'm sure without enough feedback and suggestions any of these suggestions can be balanced and make everybody happy.
Yet when all of these turn up, everybody ignores them and the same flamefest keeps going on

What a "normal" feedback discussion should be is like this:
*"Anti-FFA" players suggest on of those suggestions and how they'd implement them
*"Pro-FFA" players criticize specific parts of those suggestions and why in their minds they either won't work, or will be against any principle of the game they (and devs) have in their minds
*With that in mind, "Anti-FFA" players try to improve their suggestions to have a "best of both worlds" scenario.

Ideally, something is suggested so to "Pro-FFA" players nothing changes significantly (in terms of gameplay and principles), while "Anti-FFA" players get much more enjoyment from the gameplay changes

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gonzaw wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Absolutely nothing you have said about the silly "no ninja" discussion has PROVEN anything. You just spout off your opinion and pretend they are facts.

Got to go, I'll post later.

So, what you're saying is loot timer means allocated loot? And it if take any drop with with a timer im a ninja?

Because i say NO, and when i check the devs reasons behind loot timers im proved right. Which is indeed a FACT. Which is why i can use the word fact...lol

Now you can sit their thump your keyboard non stop with a million page essay about how im wrong and 'pretending' they are facts all you want. You can quote me to death and disect my posts all day long. You can claim im spouting opinions.

But, im just going by what the actual devs said about loot and keepin' it real.

See, im not making things up because i don't have too.

Some players think they are entitled to some special loot.
Considering timers, it's RNG.
Players feel that, all things equal, everybody is entitled to the same ammount of "special" loot. Thus, all things being equal, they think everybody should be entitled to their "timed" loot
Why? Again, if it's uniformly distributed, if everybody is entitled to their allocated loot, everybody gets a fair share of the loot.
If someone "ninja"'s you, then they make it so you get less "deserved" loot than average, thus you feel like someone "stole" from you. Meanwhile, if that guy collects all loot allocated to him, he'll have a net gain in terms of "special" loot.
Was he entitled to it? Some players feel they aren't.

Of course, if you are the one sitting back doing nothing, and someone that worked very hard to kill a boss or something "steals" your loot, then you should feel less entitled to said loot and not complain that much.
However, that doesn't happen normally. PLayers complain about the opposite: them doing the hard work and getting less "entitled" loot than someone not doing shit

Again, it's not "allocated loot->It's your entitled loot", it's a psychological connection done based on what one thinks is fair and about what loot one thinks one deserves to get.
Using the "timed" loot is the easiest way, considering it's complete RNG, and thus, fair to everybody.


Taking this into account, then yes, there are "ninjas" regarding "entitled" loot.

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Vooodu wrote:

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mibuwolf wrote:

Side note: Timers wasn't their vision. It was a change based on previous feedback. Imagine how bad the thread would be right now if they had not listened back then and instead kept it true to their vision.

Timers where such a horrible idea. They have caused nothing but entitlement RAGE issues in certain players. Which is why the ninja/loot whore QQ threads started to happen.


They should have left it alone.



Im hoping they will just remove the loot timers... But, if a few mindless posts lead to the addition of loot timers im actually kind of worried about what will happen now..

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mibuwolf wrote:

You guys bickering over what is/isn't ninja looting is baffling.

Meh... Its good for a few laughs while im at work bored. Im not really bickering, im actually enjoying myself.


:D

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gonzaw wrote:

Feedback on my "2 party systems" idea would be appreciated as well.

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Villainelle wrote:

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Those who are against having loot options are quite obviously those who like taking advantage of other players. Which makes zero sense in cooperative PVE.