Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.
" "in that." In what? |
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" o_O ...in "I won't be affected by this, but it would be bad for the game". If a change would not affect you, it can hardly be that bad for the game as you try to make it sound. Keep it together. |
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" Your honestly not needed for that. I also correct people on why the system is in place. Its out there. I don't see what you accomplishing. " I must have missed where you did that. When did you explain why it wouldn't be good for the game? I have seen many veiled insults to people who disagree with you and lame arguments like "Because the devs want it that way". The game COULD go hardcore only, thats true. But why not go the other direction and just provide the option of non competitive public games. I seriously have seen no good arguments against this. Standard Forever
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" Right, well I like to consider all possiblities and fight the ones I don't want. Let's say, hypothetically, GGG decides to implement options in Default. Then that creeps, for whatever reason, to every other league. That would most certainly effect me. I'm assuming this thread is only for Default. Simply because that's what I've been told by other players (not GGG). And even if it is, that could change for whatever reason. The odds of that happening are miniscule, but I learned a long time ago that odds mean absolutely nothing when it actually happens. I'm an optimist, but I don't let that mean I don't consider all possibilities. " I'll reply to you this once, since my former reply in regards to something you claim I didn't do was to you anyway. Understanding what you are suggesting means that you understand how it will effect everyone besides yourself. I'm sure there are players like me who play Default as is. I explained why instanced loot is not an option. It uses far too many server resources to be viable currently. If you want to know why instances close in 8-15 mins, it's to conserve server resources. Now, multiply that by the number of players that enter each individual instance. It being multiplicative is a bad thing. Additive might be manageable, but multiplicative, no. I said why I am here, not what I have been doing here. Those are two different things. If you want to know why instanced loot is not good for the game, see the above paragraph. If you want to know why making the developers sacrifice their vision for the game for the sake of what a portion of their player base wants, it's simple. If they listen to you, they might listen to everyone else too. That's not a good thing. It will destroy the game. I'm not saying they shouldn't listen to anyone, ever. I'm just saying that if they allow a portion of the players to turn this game into something it wasn't meant to be via suggestion, they will keep doing that, and the game will suffer because of it. Games that cater to everyone almost always suffer because of it. Specifically when they go against their initial "direction". Which is the vision the developers have for the game. Last edited by TremorAcePV#7356 on Feb 27, 2013, 3:52:43 AM
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" Option = you can opt out. It won't affect you, even if it gets into Hardcore League, because you would be able to play in parties using FFA. EDIT: And the "it takes more server resources" argument has already been refuted. It won't take more resources (probably less) than FFA timers. Each item gets a player ID tag, and the server only allows the player with the same ID to pick the item up (and the client can simply not render items with other players IDs). The current system keeps track of a timer as well as a player ID. Last edited by mercetron#6323 on Feb 27, 2013, 4:02:15 AM
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I found the most easy solution for this issue. Ofc no suggestion will make everyone happy, but this one is easy to implement and gives everyone plenty of time to get items:
- Give every magic/rare/unique item a 5 second timer for EVERYONE! That means, if something drops that is magic/rare/unique, then everyone will have a timer THAT LOCKS THE ITEM (and not reserve it). The timer should be 5 seconds, that's more then enough time for everyone to get close to the item. So even ranged characters will be there. After the 5 seconds have passed, the item gets unlocked for everyone and then the competition of grabbing the item begins. This way there will be no more randomized reserved items. This way, everyone has the chance to get close to the item he wants. This way, people won't rage in the forum anymore about ninjas, because it's clear that the item is meant for everyone, but that it is just locked 5 seconds so that even ranged characters can get there in time. It would take GGG like 10 minutes to implement something like this. It wouldn't need tons of resources like instanced loot and the competition between players would still be there (like GGG wants/envisions it). We don't need reserved locked items, we don't need instanced loot or any other special suggestions that are just to complex. We just need a timer that locks the item long enough, so that no one can grab it if he is close. |
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" alright then. Lets discuss that. How would that affect you? Just becuase some players in hardcore are enjoying a non competitive system means that you can't enjoy the competitive system? " I don't believe that it would have much of an effect on the competitive players, and the player base as a whole would be much happier than before with the game. " Instanced loot is only a option not THE option. As it is right now tons and tons of items are still left on the ground and the game survives. If what you said is such a major issue then the devs havent' said anything about it. If they can't do it for technical reasons then they could say so. I will take their word on it but I'm definitely not going to take yours. But I don't care to only discuss instanced loot because there are other ways compromise between the two playstyles. " Thats the slippery slope argument which is basically a strawman because it doesn't address the issue itself. I have never argued that the devs should do everything the playerbase asks. I think they should do what makes sense in context of the entire game. I don't think this issue is important enough to just sit and tick off so many players that the devs apparently want to keep. I have yet to see a good reason why FFA people should be the only ones catered to in PUBLIC games. " I think that I give the devs more credit than you do. They have the ability to make informed judgement calls. They aren't going to just freak out and start changing the core of the game. " They definitely can't cater to everyone. Someone is always mad about something. For this issue specifically they can make a judgement call based on the feedback. It wouldn't change the game as a whole, it would only affect public games which many players are simply avoiding. The "vision" argument gets really old. If your going to argue then argue your own points, don't just point to the devs and say "because they said so". Standard Forever
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" Doesn't solve the main problem for me, which is that the focus turns from team play and combat to loot hawking. Also, in Path of Exile white items can often be superior to magical ones, depending on the character build. The developers have mentioned this as well when regretting adding a "highlight only magical items" toggle (or something like that). |
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" I understand why your making this suggestion but please think about it. A great item drops and the whole party sees it. Everyone crowds around it and when the timer expires.....CLICKFEST!!!!!. The fastest and luckiest clicker wins. Technically your system is more fair than the current one but its still dumb. The luckiest spam clicker wins? I would definitely never play that. Standard Forever Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Feb 27, 2013, 4:14:37 AM
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" As a game designer, do you not realize that what is in a game matters just as much to a player as what isn't? For me, having the option to avoid FFA would defeat the purpose of having FFA at all. The relative point of FFA, in regards to the developers, is to create this cut throat atmosphere. If there's a way to opt out of this, it is pointless to have it at all. This is why giving a choice isn't really a choice. The very existence of another loot system makes having the original, in any form, pointless. It defeats the purpose. The only reason having Default doesn't affect Hardcore in the same way is that they don't interact (dying in HC irrelevant as you can't come back). And this is why we say they must choose. One or the other. Because, for some players, having both means one is pointless to have at all. And if they are to consider what you want, they must also consider what we, other players, want as well. But what we both want is incompatible. In regards to the "Default doesn't effect HC the same way" thing, a non-FFA loot system would make the game easier since players wouldn't have to compete for drops. Conversely, FFA would be harder, so players who chose FFA would be playing a harder game, overall, than the ones who chose non-FFA. Is that fair? That the two populations of players playing at different, albeit, if only slightly, difficulties mix and interact? Let me ask this, would it be fair if the Default and Hardcore leagues could interact as though they were one league? Only that Default players played by default rules and HC by HC rules? The difference between the two is more extreme, but it's the same principle. If you say yes, in regards to it being fair if the two player pools mix that choose different loot systems to play by, because it's based on player choice in how they want to play, the ranged VS melee arguement applies here since that is also a player choice based on how they want to play and it also effects their chances for getting loot. Sort of a tangent but relevant either way. Anyway, my point is, it will most certainly affect me. It will change how I play and experience the game. Enough to matter. Last edited by TremorAcePV#7356 on Feb 27, 2013, 4:22:04 AM
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