Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

I agree with this and love that GGG is keeping everything competitive.

That being said I play HC with friends only so losing out on something doesn't really happen and that should be everyone's "fix" if they have real concerns. Get out there, group up and friend the folks who are helpful, share loot and don't pick-up everything in site just to pick it up.

Given they were the busiest threads of the day I think there is some interest. Not quite sure why they dont want discussion on the subject

To comment on the implementation into Cut-throat:

I think it's only okay to have no timer if the logout/disconnect timer is made to refresh when you take damage (so your character doesn't disappear until you've gone 5-10 seconds without taking damage).

The way it is now, it's too easy for someone to grab your loot and Alt + F4. By the time you realize what they did and go to attack them, you might get one or two hits in before they disappear. It just doesn't take any skill to escape combat currently, and an escape-centric build is pointless (where it would otherwise be a viable strategy).

That being the case, with the logout/disconnect timer working like it does now, I think the way item allocation works in other leagues right now is the same way it should work in Cut-throat even if it ends up changing in other leagues (at least until there's more risk involved in escaping conflict).

As for how it works in the Default league, I'd say very well.

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DJMantiss wrote:

Get out there, group up and friend the folks who are helpful, share loot and don't pick-up everything in site just to pick it up.

I think you are overestimating the time most people are prepared to spend "finding friends", or do anything else other than actually playing the game, just to have a reasonable multiplayer experience.

Instanced loot was developed for a reason. Or rather, quite a few reasons.

I don't want any "loot tension", even when playing with friends. Especially not when playing with friends. I just can't find anything positive about it, which isn't completely dwarfed by the numerous negative aspects.

FFA to encourage a "cut-throat feeling" doesn't even make sense in coop.

We're supposed to be working together to defeat a common enemy and pursue a common goal and yet we have to anticipate our supposed allies taking any and all valuable loot.

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Estoroth wrote:

"

DJMantiss wrote:

Get out there, group up and friend the folks who are helpful, share loot and don't pick-up everything in site just to pick it up.

I think you are overestimating the time most people are prepared to spend "finding friends", or do anything else other than actually playing the game, just to have a reasonable multiplayer experience.

Instanced loot was developed for a reason. Or rather, quite a few reasons.

I don't want any "loot tension", even when playing with friends. Especially not when playing with friends. I just can't find anything positive about it, which isn't completely dwarfed by the numerous negative aspects.

Yeah. "loot tension" is a useful phrase. I don't think it adds anything at all to the game. I think the devs should reassess the entire idea of creating a "cut-throat feel". Isn't that what the "Cut-throat league" is for?

I'd like to make one last response to supporters of an instanced loot system. One main argument that seems to come up is that changing it wouldn't hurt anything. Well, let me be the first to give you logical and factual reasons as to why you are wrong.

1. Loot in a party was originally assigned to no one and was only changed to randomly allocate items of a certain value later on in the game as a compromise. Without this system it would fundamentally break several important mechanics in groups that I will explain.

2. Obtaining loot in a group is a group effort, why should loot bonuses be awarded to each person rather than the group as a whole? If you want your own loot, solo play is an easy option. Arguing that you want to play in a group for the social element and then complaining that you will never party because you MIGHT miss an item that you will probably end up vendoring makes almost no sense in its entirety.

3. THE FACTS: Non-FFA Hurts End Game
- End Game is designed around the FFA system in that maps are based a number of preset
rules.
a. Maps are dropped as if only one person is present in the instance.

b. Maps can never drop under different rules without consequences, this has been
proven.

c. Map affixes often grant loot bonuses that would be multiplied by the killing persons
loot bonuses and party bonuses in an instanced loot scenario, causing metric shit
tons of extra items that would not have been created otherwise.

d. Instanced loot in maps with no party bonuses would break a critical part of resource
gathering in groups.

4. To the final point, an argument I also often come across is that of wanting to party because it is more fun and social. Ok, for the small sacrifice of possibly losing out on an item, but overall obtaining more items, you have more fun and you can be more social.


Now for my opinion and questions.

Question
Why is having instanced loot so important to you? If you are so vastly concerned about the social aspect of the game then WHY are you going to forfeit your ability to do so because of the possibility that someone might take an item that you were allocated at random?

If you would like to party up and receive no bonuses for doing so... is the reason you want to party up so that you can faceroll your way to free loot?

If you really want to party for the social aspect then why argue that you need instanced loot in a group to keep the group moving faster or to make sure them demonz iz ded before anyone loots an item? Loot drama creates opportunity for friendships later on.

My Opinion
If all you really want is the social aspect and you don't want to have to compete with other players for loot or worry about other players looting while teh demonz are still attacking I would like to suggest a solution for you.

1. GGG will need to first create a 'Social Chat' channel for this to work.

2. Create a character and aquire the Unique items 'Queens Decree' and 'Bones of Ullr.'

3. Aquire a 'Summon Zombies' Gem.

4. Begin killing things while surrounded by your 'party members' and collect your instanced
loot!

5. Begin talking about the latest Kim K. news article from Yahoo in 'Social Chat.'

6. Enjoy the social aspect of the game!

^^^^
I’m not for instanced loot.

Most of the posters here just want to see the existing timer extended. Stop trying to use instanced loot as a straw man.

FFA loot is a form of PvP; players are competing against each other.

Some people prefer a pure PvE experience.

It's more than just loot. I don't want to see any party members looting while monsters rage. That's putting themself above the group. That's selfish.

FACT: I CANNOT have more fun in an FFA system than not. I'm not new to gaming. Neither are other players. We know what we enjoy.

There's no argument you can provide that will convince us that we're wrong, and that we'd actually prefer FFA.

It comes down to this: keeping the current system favors those who like it, and deters those who don't. Offering a non-FFA option does NOT hurt the game at all.


BTW; I've been playing for nearly a year, and none of the non-FFA arguments you make are sensible nor true.

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TheSwampDog wrote:

FFA loot is a form of PvP; players are competing against each other.

Some people prefer a pure PvE experience.

It's more than just loot. I don't want to see any party members looting while monsters rage. That's putting themself above the group. That's selfish.

FACT: I CANNOT have more fun in an FFA system than not. I'm not new to gaming. Neither are other players. We know what we enjoy.

There's no argument you can provide that will convince us that we're wrong, and that we'd actually prefer FFA.

It comes down to this: keeping the current system favors those who like it, and deters those who don't. Offering a non-FFA option does NOT hurt the game at all.


BTW; I've been playing for nearly a year, and none of the non-FFA arguments you make are sensible nor true.

I advise you to brush up on your facts.

It's not more than just loot, that's what the entire thread is about. If you are concerned about people looting while monsters are alive and you think instanced loot will stop that you are extremely jaded my friend.

Regardless of how long you have played, when (or more likely if) you start clearing maps with a group, you will realize how good the loot system is at the moment.