HOW THE F*** AM I SUPPOSED TO KILL normal EXARCH AS MELEE?????????

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Meanwhile, the vast majority of newer and less experienced players have been fed the "lie" that you MUST follow build guides to learn, play, or even excel at the game.

That's just how the game is though. If you attempt to "wing it" or make a build yourself, you will eventually hit a brick wall. Who wants to experience that more than maybe once when they play the game for the first time? All that time spent into your build, only to have to delete it and start again, that would feel horrible. So instead, people just follow build guides.

That's a game design problem, not a player problem.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

That's just how the game is though. If you attempt to "wing it" or make a build yourself, you will eventually hit a brick wall. Who wants to experience that more than maybe once when they play the game for the first time? All that time spent into your build, only to have to delete it and start again, that would feel horrible. So instead, people just follow build guides.

That's a game design problem, not a player problem.

Ah....that's such a "you" post.

Yes, you will hit walls. Welcome to life. Welcome to gaming. Welcome to every normal experience people who aren't hopelessly LAZY deal with on a regular basis.

Please....for the love of god.....NO ONE listen to posts like this: they paint an unrealistic picture, driven by a player that doesn't understand the game they play. Nor do they intend to put ANY effort in.

It is quite literally a vicious, disinformational, LIE. It discounts the thousands of players that have created all the "successful" build guides you follow. How do you think those came to be in existence? You think ALL OF IT was just.....luck of the draw one day, where the stars also aligned with a player that likes to write down and share the builds. And then offer step by step instructions on optimization and leveling and all the other critical things in guides? You think this is just some mysterious thing that other people.....are incapable of because "the game isn't designed for it"?

The reason ANY build guides exist is precisely because the game IS designed to allow you to figure out how to create builds from scratch. That's how they are ALL created.


And of course: blame the game, not your lack of effort. Why even play the game? Why not just let it play for you like a classic idle cellphone game?

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

That's a game design problem, not a player problem.

That is not a design problem, Toffy.
A player can either learn the fundamental basics by figuring things out on their own, or take the easier route by following a well documented and easy to follow build guide. From there, they can build their knowledge, develop a stronger understanding of how things work, and eventually create their own builds without issue.

Ultimately, both paths lead to the same result. A player who shows genuine interest will understand the basics, expand their knowledge, improve, and continue advancing. This approach applies to nearly everything in life. If you are interested in something, you will eventually learn the foundational principles and get better at it.

This is exactly how build guides come into existence in the first place. People learn, experiment, observe how systems interact, and then assemble functional builds. The early days of Path of Exile are a clear example, when no guides existed at all.
Players learned the game by understanding the basics as they went. Because of that, this is not a game design issue but a player issue. If someone does not want to learn the fundamentals, whether through trial and error or by using the many well put together guides that are now widely accessible after more than a decade, they will struggle.

Path of Exile is no longer exceptionally deep or opaque. With its well documented history, it is easy to figure things out for anyone willing to put in the effort.

And I'm just gonna keep following build guides forever, because making one is too complicated in this game. And too time-consuming, and crafting is too hard and RNG, and items cost too much. Its not fun.

Copy-pasting some build guide is much easier and quicker, that's the logical choice. Even with my 6000 hours of playtime.

That's why I said its a game design issue and not a player issue. If the game let me experiment with builds more freely without being punished for any mistakes, maybe I'd do it.

Its just easier to follow build guides lol, sorry but I'm not an HC SSF god gamer that can put together a pob that kills voidstone bosses in 5 hours. That's the 0.1%.

But what you’re describing is ultimately a player issue, Toffy.

Even if you simply follow build guides, you inevitably learn something from the builds you play, that is typically the natural outcome. Spending 600k hours following guides, for instance, will inevitably teach you concepts, strategies, or ideas that you can later apply when creating your own builds.
Some lesson, some insight, anything at all, will emerge. If, however, after 600k hours a player has learned nothing or refuses to learn, that reflects a player’s approach rather than a flaw in the game itself.
The responsibility lies with the player for neglecting the foundational basics.

It is akin to attending a class, studying Spanish for five years, and then failing the final exam with not a single answer correct and no understanding of what the instructions or questions even asked, simply because they were in Spanish, yet blaming the exam for being unfair or at fault.
The fault is not with the exam, but with the individual who refused to learn. Similarly, it is like working at a company for three years and leaving without having gained any experience. In both cases, the problem lies not with the class, the exam, or the workplace, but with the person who never applied themselves.

First off, I would suggest don't stand in the shaper beams.

Second, can we talk about how its once again the same three people talking about the same one of three topics in the same gradually inflating text walls as usual?

Like, I'd post my burning carousel again but the rides getting a bit stale at this point.

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Bigwilleh#1842 wrote:

Second, can we talk about how its once again the same three people talking about the same one of three topics in the same gradually inflating text walls as usual?

Like, I'd post my burning carousel again but the rides getting a bit stale at this point.

Its pretty weird and funny, no idea why it keeps happening. All I'm doing is giving my feedback on the game. I've started using a firefox script that some kind users posted on this forum many years ago, so now I can just hide any comments locally on my browser and make my forum experience 1000x better.

If you're interested: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1473168

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Streamers aren't geniuses. They simply approach the game in a very different way than modern players, and they have learned through years of trial and error and learning things through their own means. They have the learned knowledge and flexibility to overcome obstacles.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of newer and less experienced players have been fed the "lie" that you MUST follow build guides to learn, play, or even excel at the game. This is why, leagues or even years later, these same players.....have no idea how to make a build or play the game. They hit a wall and are helpless to overcome it, so forumrage and ragequit win out over old-school experimentation and self-improvement. All the wall-busting and problem solving that actually TEACHES you the game......has already been done for you, and so no learning happens and you "think" that its normal to just have smooth progression with no effort from beginning to t16 maps. Any time that gets messed with, players cry foul. Without realizing they've mostly been coasting on the backs of NORMAL players that actually put in the effort. Not geniuses

Idk, I feel pretty stupid when I see a streamers build. I think they're above average iq because I've never been able to create my own builds. I've played since day 1 and have only recently been able to do 36 challenges in a league. I can get through them fairly quickly, but I also play a lot more than the average person because of my disability. I still don't think, with all my free time, I'd ever be able to create a build that could get me through 36 challenges. Jung's stuff is always impressive to me. Idk what's wrong with me but I can't figure any of this out without someone holding my hand.

it is not iq, altho sometimes some 'special interactions' are hard to spot or work despite tooltips telling you they shouldnt

but such interactions are 100% unnecessary to 'beat' the game (aka get 36/40 challenges quickly)

you need:
1) lots of playtime
2) EFFICIENT playtime (pre-rolling maps, sticking to one character, efficient leveling - aka dont try to force a meme with no gear)
3) having a basic concept of what makes given skill strong and knowing how to 'stack' it. picking a skill that fits the content.
4) defences. builds with no defences simply die often
5) knowing that additions to a build multiply like crazy

good players with good builds will never have empty affixes on gear. will avoid non-top bases in case of weapons and armour pieces. will quality/catalyst everything

if you have a damage formula with 10 elements, if you increase ALL of them by 5% you wont get 5% total increase but almost double of the initial value

so they will pursue little gains locally to get great increase globally.

getting T1 roll instead of T2, divining that T1 roll to perfection. proper catalyst on a ring, knowing the value of crit multi and of various gem levels. knowing what to upgrade first (build with lots of %inc damage and just some %attack speed will benefit FAR MORE from few sources of %attack speed)

it is simple math, no sorcery needed. it is just tedious after some time, because it is hard to be excited when replacing 800pdps weapon with 840pdps. but after few such minor upgrades you get 50% more power..

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troutmix#6312 wrote:

...

It's all knowledge and playtime. You can get away with pretty poor mechanical skill in PoE. If you're interested in becoming better at the game I recommend valuing knowledge higher or even prioritizing it:

- If you have left-over currency at the end of the league, try crafting a commonly used item to get a feeling for it. Clusters, flasks and stygian vises are usually a good start with low entry cost.

- Try playing builds you have no idea of and try pushing them past the information from guides.

- Play new atlas strategies, keep track of the loot and what the profitable part is then optimize for it.