"Randomization" of the levels?

I would love to see heavier randomization, especially concerning the placement of certain import points on the map. I would like to search for the bandit camps and the entrances to the side dungeons.

But then, I've been wanting that since I started playing the game.
And I've had too much fun playing to keep being bothered about this.

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

There is more randomization than you're giving credit for, Kabraxis. A lot more, actually.

It would be nice if you could provide us with examples for this statement. Saying this and not providing any examples is just words, unfortunately.

The randomization I am seeing is roads bending slightly differently, coastlines bending slightly differently, walls bending slightly differently, trees/boulders/shrubbery/various other items placed slightly differently.

Does any of this add to my enjoyment of the game? Unfortunately, no. Does it add to the replayability of the game? Definitely not.

I will still follow the road through the old fields to get to the next zone. I will still follow the ledge to get to the exit. I still know exactly where the exits to the other zones are in the crossroads.

The randomization might be awesome on paper, but that's missing the point. The game, for the players, is repetitive and the randomization does not add much at all for the player.

"

Yes, level randomization is a feature meant to encourage replayability. The devs have stated that, and it's something they've continued to improve throughout the beta.

How have they improved it? I have only played since September 2011, and since then.. well, the fetid pool became more fetid and Gneiss became bigger. Nothing else comes to mind.

Care to give me any examples of where the devs have continued to improve this?

Randomization, for me, is when the devs make sure that their areas are worth exploring. Name me one area where the randomization can lead to something new and cool? A new path to a new area? An entirely different look of the zone? Something worth going off the beaten path to find?

Maybe all of this is coming, I don't know (because the devs rarely talk about new areas.. or new content whatsoever), but it sure as hell isn't there today.

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mkreku wrote:

Care to give me any examples of where the devs have continued to improve this?

Many area topologies have been added throughout the beta, giving areas more possible layouts.

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mkreku wrote:

Name me one area where the randomization can lead to something new and cool?

Not sure what you're looking for here. Areas lead to other areas, or are dead-ends that usually have a quest objective or a mini-boss. Just because other games have randomization that does other things doesn't mean PoE should be expected to.

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mkreku wrote:

An entirely different look of the zone?

Do you mean layouts or entirely different looks? The latter doesn't make sense in a story-driven RPG, so I assume the first. I've already talked about topologies.

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mkreku wrote:

Something worth going off the beaten path to find?

The Cave. Rare enemies. Large chests. Waypoints. This really depends on your definition of "the beaten path."

I'm not saying the system in PoE is perfect or the most amazingly exciting random area generator of all time, but the areas are random. Saying they're not isn't truthful.

I think people are expecting more from the system than is intended. I don't think we're ever going to see a system in PoE that makes areas completely random, such as completely randomized area transitions. It wouldn't make much sense to head north to a new area and then have that area be to the south on your next play-through when the world map clearly shows that it's really to the east. That kind of randomization is silly and encourages players to simply follow the perimeter to find the next area just they did in D2. On that point, even D2 had a bunch of static or otherwise predictable maps, but it's not argued that D2's maps aren't random.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

It wouldn't make much sense to head north to a new area and then have that area be to the south on your next play-through when the world map clearly shows that it's really to the east. That kind of randomization is silly and encourages players to simply follow the perimeter to find the next area just they did in D2. On that point, even D2 had a bunch of static or otherwise predictable maps, but it's not argued that D2's maps aren't random.

Diablo I did this very well, and used it on its advantage pretty well at the time, cause it had no quest indicator dumbed-down craps which could be seen since about 2000's sadly to suit new generation's lazyness.

It was really really cool and the way it must had been style back then, no quest guides, no indicator where the quest location takes place etc. You search and find it. Can't find it in the first time ? You keep trying till you find it on your own without asking. Ah, i miss those days really...

So there wouldn't be any problem if any location on one instance be on West or East, this way you could hit two birds with one stone, and doing pretty much well at the same time. What the hell happened and marketing turned into a shit pile system that we are forced to be in.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

Many area topologies have been added throughout the beta, giving areas more possible layouts.

You sure do seem to like the word "topology". Unfortunately, it doesn't mean much for the player.

"

Just because other games have randomization that does other things doesn't mean PoE should be expected to.

Kabraxis said that randomization is very low in PoE. I agreed with Kabraxis. You, on the other hand, said he was not giving the randomization enough credit and that there were a lot more going on.

I know what to expect from PoE. What I don't know is what YOU mean when you say there's a lot going on. I am waiting for you to explain this.

"

This really depends on your definition of "the beaten path."

If I'm going to have to define well-established expressions, then we have no discussion. I am used to discussing things with people with a basic understanding of the language.

"

I'm not saying the system in PoE is perfect or the most amazingly exciting random area generator of all time, but the areas are random. Saying they're not isn't truthful.

Neither I nor Kabraxis said there was no randomization. We both said that PoE has low randomization. You disagreed and said there was more to it than that.

Do not try to twist the argument. Explain what we, as players, are missing that's much more than what Kabraxis and I are giving PoE credit for.

"

I think people are expecting more from the system than is intended.

Actually, you defined in your previous post what people expect from randomization: replay value. PoE's randomization does not provide this at the moment. In fact, I don't think anyone would notice if they suddenly made all zones static! That's how low the randomization is right now.

PoE maps are not random enough and they don't increase replayability. That's a fact and it will be valid for a long time.

This is GGG's first game. They are probably even younger than some of us.

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permaximum wrote:

PoE maps are not random enough and they don't increase replayability. That's a fact and it will be valid for a long time.

This is GGG's first game. They are probably even younger than some of us.

Even though your statements are valid as it gets, being silence against this unwanted and sad situation is not just in the hands.