Why Casual Gamers Don't Play POE2

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Morghus#4174 wrote:

I think in general compared to a lot of other similar games, because of the crafting heavy focus it by sort of necessity, means the loot you get during gameplay is kind of garbage. Like, you are highly unlikely to find a usable rare piece of gear, and a large amount of uniques are also worthless.

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ruthlessrod#0798 wrote:

Rarity on gear sucks, the party loot buff sucks. Look at all these leech games that exist because of the party buff, I was enjoying public games before they popped up. Easy fix, everyone gets their own loot tables, remove rarity and replace it* with a infinite scaling difficulty stat like, effectiveness. If builds are op, it will show, if they are weak, it will show.

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Gryzzex#3752 wrote:

Personally, I think the main reason casual players won't play PoE 2 is that it has lost the essence of ARPG that was the soul of Diablo, namely the joy of loot for the build you play.

It's nice to get a bunch of divine orbs or some nice unique items for sold on market, but if the chance of improving your gear is the same as winning the national lottery twice and getting struck by lightning on the same day, then it's not worth it. Otherwise, it's pretty much a craft lottery, or you're forced to trade, and instead of an ARPG, it becomes a trade/stock market simulator. This is caused by several factors

Too many base items with a large number and range of explicit stats. And unfortunately, this will get worse and worse as individual classes are added, because we still have Daggers, Swords, Axes, and Flails to look forward to. Here, I would welcome some kind of mechanic that would increase the chance of dropping something that I could use, whether based on attribute type, explicit stat type, or a combination.

Another thing is the practically mandatory stats for items such as attack speed/cast speed, movement speed, +level to gems, and for attacks, weapons with the highest possible physical damage. Related to this is the large spread in power drops on individual items, with 99% of drops being junk that can only be sold for gold or broken down into raw materials. Personally, I would limit or remove (+level to gems) from rare gear and leave it only on unique items for some mandatory explicit stats, or move them to implicit stats so that the spread in power drops is not so large and variability is maintained. I would also reduce the number of tiers of individual explicit stats and set ranges within the item level. In my opinion, this would lead to a reduction in power characters, but on the other hand, developers could better balance content for average gear at a certain level and could better design boss fights that don't last barely 3 seconds from a certain damage level.

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cavexs#4102 wrote:

I share the view of Cyriac. You need to design a game that is for players that are willing to come back and spend money again and again.

However I don't expect GGG to revert key changes that would be necessary to get back a part of the playerbase. And I also don't expect them to ramp up the difficulty to a level that compensates the multiportal option now because they would loose the people they actually sided in favor of the ones that left.

They already made everything easier with the new trading system and all league mechanics of poe2 are already beginner friendly compared to part 1.


So if you want to go full casual you should do something like daily quests and reward people for using alchemy orbs on their waystone. And you need to have something like leaderboards so that people invest time in something that is otherwise not challenging enough even for people that struggle spending their 5 chaos orbs they found in the campaign after some time. Sounds horrifying to me, but might be a way to move the game into a direction that is completely different than PoE1. I am just afraid PoE2 might be the downfall of GGG and while I don't care too much about PoE2 right now I would feel very sad about the other part. That's why I could also live with a PoE2 that I don't play but that is as successful as it can get.

Will see though. Pretty sure they discuss better ideas than mine right now.

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Cyriac_Darakus#1022 wrote:

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Morghus#4174 wrote:

I think in general compared to a lot of other similar games, because of the crafting heavy focus it by sort of necessity, means the loot you get during gameplay is kind of garbage. Like, you are highly unlikely to find a usable rare piece of gear, and a large amount of uniques are also worthless.

The game really is not that heavily focused on just crafting though, there are plenty of ways to avoid this. Sure you are most likely not getting mirror worthy gear but that's not required at all. Most of my toons end up with all their gear with T2-3 affixes then they are done.

This is probably "reject gear" from those crafting it and then selling it for siginificantly less. But this gear level is more than enough to beat everything in the game and to have a working build.

In fact if every player used their own currency to craft we would probably see significantly less good or decent gear available because those who sell currency make it possible for the crafters to keep trying. I have crafted a few pieces of gear myself but I do it by chance when I get a good blue base I don't go out of my way to put the effort into making an item.

Made myself a T1-2 Talisman in the first few days then gambled a vaal on it, got the 3s and sold it for 30 div in first week. Funded my first toon quite easily, Easily capable of completing every boss up to T3. The exception might be simulacrum but build compesition plays a huge part in this.

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katsukai#1184 wrote:

After playing for a while based on my own experience and watching other content creators, why this game doesn’t really grab the casual gamer is quite simple.

Your Equipment Finds During the Campaign Won’t Carry You Into the Endgame.

A lot of people expect that the loot they find during the campaign will carry them through the entire game. This is rarely true. Most players may end up with one or two Divine Orbs, or possibly a unique item worth a similar amount, but they don’t know what to do with them after completing the campaign. Some players simply quit and don’t bother engaging with trade mechanics or learning crafting systems to make effective use of the currency they’ve obtained.

The Rarity Stat Gatekeeps How You Build Your Character and Your Overall Enjoyment of the Game.

If you struggle to find currency and wonder why other players are more successful, it’s often because you don’t have at least 150% item rarity from your gear and Waystone modifiers. Without this, you are effectively handicapping yourself and will perform significantly worse compared to players who can run builds stacked with item rarity.

Personally, item rarity is a horribly toxic stat that should never have existed in the first place. The game should be about making your character as strong as possible—not forcing you to care about a stat that directly dictates how much loot you’re allowed to have.

The Crafting System Is Overly Complicated, and New Content Continually Bloats It Further.

A game design that requires players to read spreadsheets and external guides because its core mechanics aren’t properly explained in-game is a serious issue. Due to the two problems above, many players are afraid to spend their currency. Failed crafting attempts have major consequences and, given how the economy currently works, can lead players to quit altogether.

Ironically, players with large amounts of currency are more willing to take crafting risks, while those with very little cannot afford to experiment at all. This backwards design only pushes players away from engaging with crafting.

People Turn to RMT Because the Game Doesn’t Respect Their Time.

Because the crafting system has such a steep learning curve and effectively amounts to gambling when it comes to min-maxing, some players simply avoid the hassle. Instead, they spend real money to buy currency so they can skip the process entirely and purchase items from the market—or at least feel they have a safety net that allows them to learn crafting without the fear of falling behind or hitting a progression wall.

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ruthlessrod#0798 wrote:

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Cyriac_Darakus#1022 wrote:

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Morghus#4174 wrote:

I think in general compared to a lot of other similar games, because of the crafting heavy focus it by sort of necessity, means the loot you get during gameplay is kind of garbage. Like, you are highly unlikely to find a usable rare piece of gear, and a large amount of uniques are also worthless.

The game really is not that heavily focused on just crafting though, there are plenty of ways to avoid this. Sure you are most likely not getting mirror worthy gear but that's not required at all. Most of my toons end up with all their gear with T2-3 affixes then they are done.

This is probably "reject gear" from those crafting it and then selling it for siginificantly less. But this gear level is more than enough to beat everything in the game and to have a working build.

In fact if every player used their own currency to craft we would probably see significantly less good or decent gear available because those who sell currency make it possible for the crafters to keep trying. I have crafted a few pieces of gear myself but I do it by chance when I get a good blue base I don't go out of my way to put the effort into making an item.

Made myself a T1-2 Talisman in the first few days then gambled a vaal on it, got the 3s and sold it for 30 div in first week. Funded my first toon quite easily, Easily capable of completing every boss up to T3. The exception might be simulacrum but build compesition plays a huge part in this.

Bro what game are you playing? What? You just said the game isn't that craft heavy then you tell us you sold something you crafted for 30d. What lol. I had a lvl 46 talisman until early maps. It's easy, says the hunter who walks outside and sees a dead deer on his door step.