Build Diversity

I don’t usually follow the forum and I rarely look up builds. I normally just create my own build every league and play it for as long as I feel like. But this time I decided to check poe.ninja to get some ideas for a new character — and I was shocked.

For almost every skill, the highest damage/tankiness setups are some kind of attribute stacker. They usually use the same items and often even the same class, just swapping the skill. This isn’t a complaint, and I don’t blame anyone for playing what the game allows — if it’s there, it’s meant to be used. But it does raise a question: doesn’t this hurt build diversity?
If the best endgame builds are almost always some form of stacker, is there really build diversity in the game?

Not sure if this topic has been brought up before.

Build diversity in POE is somewhat misleading.

Technically, there are countless builds that work, but only until maps, or early white maps. But once you reach mid to high endgame only a handful work; and as always the majority of players that stick around for that content will all play something similar.

That's the whole reason we have this stupid "meta shift" balance and discussion every league. And the funny part is that the end result is always the same; even with the changes the top performing builds remain unchanged.

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Build diversity in POE is somewhat misleading.

Technically, there are countless builds that work, but only until maps, or early white maps. But once you reach mid to high endgame only a handful work; and as always the majority of players that stick around for that content will all play something similar.

That's the whole reason we have this stupid "meta shift" balance and discussion every league. And the funny part is that the end result is always the same; even with the changes the top performing builds remain unchanged.

Don’t you think this is also relevant data?

I agree that for the story and the early white maps, pretty much any build works. But the fact that everyone eventually migrates to a build that looks very similar — or even identical — should also be taken into account as part of the answer.

Either the endgame is too difficult for different builds to realistically handle it, or the mid-game isn’t rewarding enough for players to develop their builds to a point where they can reach the endgame.

Maybe the issue is actually itemization. At some point, the game simply stops offering items that allow different builds to function in the endgame. Could that be the problem?

To be clear, I’m not suggesting lowering endgame difficulty. I’m just pointing out that if everyone ends up switching to the same build, that’s also a sign that something might be wrong.

My theory is that items for attribute-stacking builds have had values and bonuses far above what they should for a long time.

You can find items that give “+38% increased Attributes”, gems that give “+15% to Intelligence”, and rings with “+163 to Intelligence.”

Maybe the solution isn’t necessarily to nerf these items, but to buff other options so different builds can actually function.

Without trying to overthink it, I believe the issue is a mix of: GGG doesn't care/want to/doesn't know how to balance and people optimizing the fun out of the game (they found the best thing, and now that's all they do because it's the most optimal thing).

stacking was mentioned recently.

https://youtu.be/gmH6W6u5beM?t=4370

true build diversity exists only when the toughest content in the game can be done by a player with decent gear and bad build.

currently in most d-likes having an optimized build and decent gear is scratching the base minimum to perform at end game.

you can still have a gazillion viable builds in poe but i would argue diversity is in fact limited.

Yes stacking is broken for many, many leagues, it is the only way to do valdo maps and other difficult content. I do not see anyone with normal build farming those, and it is not only because stat stacker does trillion dps(which surely does not hurt) but mostly because stat stacking is the only way to get defense to actually survive for few seconds in those maps.

Add "Voided" existing and you just can not risk playing anything else. Even these 120000energy shield builds get sometimes instant killed and we type F in general chat as they are send to the void. Non stat stacker gets send to the void right after clicking the portal with the measly +-12k total hp pool.

I've stacked endurance charges 2 seasons ago and even with flat out 76% less damage taken i was not 1/5 as tanky as low budget stat stacker while wearing around 3 mirrors of gear myself. It is because of the total pool and the resulting recovery. Recovering 1% from 100 energy shield is 1/second
Recovering 1% from 100,000,000,000 is 10,000,000/second. So you can take huge hit, while also ignoring any small hit because your pool will just recover it in instant solving all your offense and defense at once.

If stat stacking is there to stay, i can say just this: Never play anything else.
Accept the meta and even first day of league look for int/mana gear like a good boy so you do not have to swap later.

To me stat stacking meta is very stale, it would be nice to have at least league or two per 5 years where we can do something else.

Instead of having alternative to stacking they just give us more stacking options.
This league you can mana+int+light resist stack accuracy+int stack +all previous methods except armor stacking(armor stacking is pretty bad atm and it was much better in the past)

next league we perhaps get evasion+charge+str stacking

2 leagues from now fire resist+hybrid armor/evasion+dex stacking

After that we get str+int+block stacking....
5 years from now it will be minion+potion+dex stacking :DDD

It is getting real silly real fast. I'm not asking for the stackers to be removed, but i ask for ONE just ONE alternative way to build your endgame character. Looking at top 1000characters in poeninja there is not single one.

Its nothing new, attribute stackers have the highest DPS ceiling in the game as long as you have enough currency to pay for the exorbitantly expensive BIS gear they require. That doesn't really make those builds the best, there are tons of builds that provide more bang per buck on the low and mid end, it's just at the absolute top end where they are unmatched. Since POE Ninja shows exactly those top end players ranked by dps to a large degree its heavily biased towards showing those builds.

To achieve build diversity = dropping the game difficuties TREMENDOUSLY.


DO the math.


if there are almost "any setup" can reach end game.
there will still be some top 5% meta build going to destroy the game, and become FARRRR too easy.


any setup include bad builds. and making Bad build to crush end game.
you will still see Good Build become cheat.


Do the math.....