what exactly are they waiting for, for a public release?

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

Whenever Poe1 was delayed the way it was, I got the idea from GGG that the game (poe2) wasn't that far off from being finished. I had the impression we would have 1 EA (beta) "League" Then 1.0 would launch.

So, just to be absolutely clear when you say you "got the idea from GGG" what you mean to say is that you absolutely made it up out of nowehere because they never said anything to suggest anything of the sort. The only public statement they have made about the length of Early Access is that it will take "as long as needed" to finish the game. Any other "ideas" or "impressions" you got about that being very soon were your own inventions.

Also, to be clear, Early Access is absolutely not a "beta" so I don't know why that's in parantheses here. Maybe this is part of the confusion?

If you think Early Access is synonymous with Beta then that might be throwing you off and could explain the assumptions you made.

Since this is just a "what words mean" question, ChatGPT can actually help a lot; here's a rundown of the difference between EA and Beta: https://i.imgur.com/eLtQQSj.png

"

Belegur85#5784 wrote:

I completely agree, and I believe it was intentional, largely for marketing reasons.

You completely agree with the imaginary timeline this guy made up in his head and you believe it was intentional for marketing reasons?

GGG never said or implied anything publicly to indicate that PoE2 was close to being finished or that Early Access was only going to last a single League.

Mate, you are delusional. It is not a miss interpretation by the players. It is half a decade of the game being mooted as being almost ready to go.

In hindsight it is clear that is not the case. Players can only go by the information they are fed from GGG.

By the way, if GGG were upfront about this, there would of been even more backlash at the time than there already was. It relates to the revenue structure the game has used. Some people have put multiple thousands of dollars of support into the game. It is optional support, but it's still payments based on POE1 existing, and then POE1 integrating with POE2, and then them being standalone, but with MTX compatible across both.

"

Also, to be clear, Early Access is absolutely not a "beta" so I don't know why that's in parantheses here. Maybe this is part of the confusion?

It is a point of confusion, because GGG have made it a point of confusion. It is semantics about terminology. The game is currently being tested by the players, it is not in a complete form.

By the way I got emailed about applying for "Closed beta test" selection, start of august last year. I don't know the exact date of when the early access was announced, but it was originally set for November 15th. So if your point is that beta testing is significantly different from early access, was extensive beta testing run? There is a very small window of time there, for them to have players read the email and apply, collate the applications and select a sample, inform players they are part of the beta and provide them access, have them play extensively and provide feedback, act on the feedback and decide the game is ready for early access, announce and market the launch of early access. All why using staff that are working on the incomplete game getting it ready to launch early access on November 15th.

If extensive beta testing was done prior to the early access release, I would be interested to know. It seems to me like the time frame for beta testing ruthless mode was more extensive than this. From memory, it was a whole season, with wiped progression. That is for a game that basically already exists, and just has less loot. I'm sure testing was done in some form, clearly gameplay guide creators had access to the game, but why ask for beta testing participation a handful of weeks before early access is going to launch if these things are significantly different.

If you think the definition is so important, what is your definition of early access beyond beta testing? That it is early access to the completed game? This then sounds closer to a beta test. The early access has been given, but to what? A game that is incomplete and being tested. POE is constantly in a state of change. The fact is much of the intended content is not there currently. It is lacking choice, because a lot of things are missing. They know they putting those in the game, they just haven't added those things yet. Final acts, characters, skills, items.

Further to this, not having an official launch where everything is fresh, unknown and all players are starting on even footing takes all the excitement out of the beginning to the game. It is a trade off, with having the game polished and server loading tested, but it is like never having a proper launch. Player base drip feeds in and there is no starting point. Running early access might have some benefits, but a lot is lost as well, by fracturing the player base.

"

DistributedAutomaton#5739 wrote:

"

GrandmasterPin#2188 wrote:

like what goals need to be met before the do public release?

Two campaign acts
5 character classes
19 ascendancies
fully fleshed out endgame
improved server stability
improved performance
all PoE1 MTX working in PoE2

Yea that is a lot... really puts it into 2030 vision.

Sorry, i forgot there was a mrknowitall here I'm sure your mom is proud with all of your proper definitions.

The fact that Jonathan said "at least 6 months, maybe 12 months" gave me that idea. Jonathan was even thinking on the long end December 2025.

Since they announced all of the extra ascendancies and classes to create hype that would imply that all that content would actually be in the game as well. And not like, in 2024 Ea launch, 12 months 1.0, and in 4 years from then we will have all the classes and ascendancies we talked about while hyping up poe2.

Whenever a game is launched before its official release that's called a beta to anyone that's not a kid. Just because the naming convention is changed doesn't mean its not essentially the same thing. Until d4 I'd personally never heard of Early access at all. I also haven't really diversified in my games since the n64 days when you beat a game and needed a new one to play. Once d2 came out and they started doing seasons it kept you busy.

D4s actual use of "Early access" is more fitting to an actual early access than what is going to happen with poe2.

Last epoch was in early access for 5 years or so. With a toaster level of technology and man power compared to GGG. It would be pretty embarrassing if it took them that same time frame. Even though last epoch is shit imo, there are people that think its good.

Until they have all the ascendancies and classes that was teased before EA, even if they do launch 1.0. I personally wouldn't consider that full launch because its a skeleton of what they were supposed to put out and they're putting out half baked (in terms of their hype content) content. Its about as equivalent of d4 trying to trick people into thinking mephisto might be in the game then saying gotcha. j k

"

Belegur85#5784 wrote:

So if your point is that beta testing is significantly different from early access, was extensive beta testing run?

...of course not. Beta testing comes long after Early Access. Beta is the last build just before full release - it's the final QA validation check to make sure everything is working before 1.0 goes live. We're nowhere near that yet. We're in 0.3.

Early Access is a long, extended period of iterative design and development that takes place over an indeterminate amount of time. It precedes Beta. The timeline we're on looks like this:

0.1, 0.2, 0.3... 0.n and then eventually a 1.0 build which will go into Beta. When 1.0 leaves Beta it will be released.

The definitions I posted should have made this very clear so I'm not sure why we're even having this conversation at this point.

"

Kerchunk#7797 wrote:

"

Belegur85#5784 wrote:

So if your point is that beta testing is significantly different from early access, was extensive beta testing run?

...of course not. Beta testing comes long after Early Access. Beta is the last build just before full release - it's the final QA validation check to make sure everything is working before 1.0 goes live. We're nowhere near that yet. We're in 0.3.

Early Access is a long, extended period of iterative design and development that takes place over an indeterminate amount of time. It precedes Beta. The timeline we're on looks like this:

0.1, 0.2, 0.3... 0.n and then eventually a 1.0 build which will go into Beta. When 1.0 leaves Beta it will be released.

The definitions I posted should have made this very clear so I'm not sure why we're even having this conversation at this point.

This was really painful to read. Please, for the love of versioning, read up what beta and 1.0 mean...

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

Whenever a game is launched before its official release that's called a beta to anyone that's not a kid.

Hi guy. I'm turning 46 this year and will start my 23rd year of a career in software development, the first 10 of which I spent in game development.

I promise you I don't need your help with these definitions.

I posted an extensive explanation of what Beta is as compared to Early Access. If you can't be bothered to read it, that's on you. We're not in Beta yet. Beta is in the future. Beta is the final phase before full release. We're nowhere near Beta.

"

quarki#9020 wrote:

This was really painful to read. Please, for the love of versioning, read up what beta and 1.0 mean...

Yeah, guy. I think I've got it covered. I'm not the one confused here.

"

Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

The fact that Jonathan said "at least 6 months, maybe 12 months" gave me that idea. Jonathan was even thinking on the long end December 2025.

I actually do remember that lmao

I even made a post late 0.1 or early 0.2 saying it would be a bad idea to release late 2025, and people kept saying Jonathan never said it

But I do clearly remember

"

Kerchunk#7797 wrote:

Yeah, guy. I think I've got it covered. I'm not the one confused here.

Obviously you don't, and you are.

"

iHiems#0168 wrote:

But I do clearly remember

Guy it's 2025 we all know that this isn't how human memory works. Your "clear memory" of him saying this means nothing if you can't show me a video or an article from a credible source quoting him as actually saying it. It's just as likely your memory is something you invented because you read someone else suggesting that he said it and your brain decided that was something that sounded good to you. Your memories aren't reliable without credible source material.

What I can show you is that the Steam page has said the same thing since 0.1 launched: "As long as needed. We believe it will be at least 6 months."

I've been in a dozen of these threads and nobody has ever been able to give me a source for GGG saying anything other than this -- Early Access will take as long as needed, and since we're well beyond 6 months without any further clarification then all we can say from this point is that it's going to take... as long as needed.

"

quarki#9020 wrote:

Obviously you don't, and you are.

Sure dude. Any time you want to follow up on this vapid incredulity with some well-sourced corrections to the things I've said I'll be happy to receive. I'll be shocked if after 23 years in the industry some rando on the PoE forums has something to teach me about the software development lifecycle but holy shit if you've got the goods please serve them up.