Block is an inflated Defensive Stat that is way too OP and completely out of Line

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

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Celestriad#0304 wrote:

That you?

...and? Can you read?

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Seriously, I'd not have a problem with GGG nerfing my build's DPS by 90%, granted that I could still play the game with it, meaning that it'd have to come with accompanying monster rebalance

I'll give you a hint:

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And that's what makes most of the nerfs shit imo, as the approach is always one-sided.

What do you think would happen if GGG were to nerf block? You are around long enough to know what happened when they nuked Glancing Blows. All I'm saying is be careful what you ask for.

On topic: Block is fine.

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Celestriad#0304 wrote:

I'll give you a hint:

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And that's what makes most of the nerfs shit imo, as the approach is always one-sided.

What do you think would happen if GGG were to nerf block? You are around long enough to know what happened when they nuked Glancing Blows. All I'm saying is be careful what you ask for.

Oh, that's how you meant it. Maybe just start off with that next time, makes it easier.

I recall that Glancing Blows was nerfed because of Recovery on Block. Don't remember the specifics anymore, would have to check the Wiki for that.

Glancing Blows builds can still be used, though, and in some cases the damage taken is a mechanic you actually want, i.e. for when you want on Block + when hit + damage taken interactions.

Not sure that's a good example, as it was essentially nerfed because it was too good to pass up and so everyone used it. Iirc I even used it on my 3.9 CoC Block VD Necro for more consistency from Martyr of Innocence's 15% Fire Pen if blocked recently.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Not sure that's a good example, as it was essentially nerfed because it was too good to pass up and so everyone used it.

That's what I wanted to get out of you - thank you. Block is good if your build can fit it, very much so - no one argues against that - but it is far from "broken good" where everyone ends up using it. It's been what, two leagues now where block has been slowly making a comeback?

Just to put it into perspective, for this league on softcore:
• Svallin 8%
• Azadi Crest 1%
• Aegis Aurora 12%

If you filter further you'll find that the majority of Aegis Aurora is used by variations of FRoSS - at least 81% of all Occultists on Mercenaries SC. The block ascendancy itself, Gladiator, sits at a amazing 2%.

Yeah no, I don't think block is the problem and outlier you think it is. It just became popular again because Mercenaries shiftet the meta and allows a lot of top / top-right side builds to thrive - in many cases block is just the obvious choice there.

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Celestriad#0304 wrote:

It's been what, two leagues now where block has been slowly making a comeback?

Not sure who told you that, but Block has been OP for far longer than Gladiator's Block node rework and the introduction of Svalinn.

The Duelist PoB with 2 items I linked is literally what I'd use since the introduction of Versatile Combatant, and all my builds in that area had 50/50 Block paired with Spell Suppression until the buff that made it 65/65.

I literally used this with my Cloak of Flame "damage taken as" stacking tank until a.) a streamer picked it up and it got massively inflated over night, and b.) before GGG nerfed it by removing essential items to reach 100%.

Damage mitigation alone means fuck all if you don't have any Block. The moment you add Block is how you take a tanky character to OP. Block is really good against many smaller hits, which make up like 90% of the game, and average damage mitigation goes through the roof.

If you want, I can prove it. Though it'd have to be on a character with no Spell Suppression, as it doesn't have that (my "Lazy Susie" build linked below, latest iteration).

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

If you want, I can prove it.

Prove what? That block is good? You don't have to prove it, we all know the game. The only problem here, is that you define "OP" differently from almost everyone.

To be able to do juiced T17's, Valdo's maps and uber bosses, you need "good" defenses. Block is a good layer. And as you so eloquently put it:

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Damage mitigation alone means fuck all if you don't have any Block.

And you want to nerf it because? There are A MILLION things in the endgame scenario that have to be nerfed before they start nerfing our defensive layers, but you keep skipping that, and are attacking layers we do very much need in the current iteration of the game. You said so yourself.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

layers we do very much need in the current iteration of the game. You said so yourself.

Nah, man. We don't need those, we use them because we are too lazy to dodge. Plus, the game has gotten kinda fast.

And you misinterpreted what I meant by this:

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Damage mitigation alone means fuck all if you don't have any Block.

You can make a character with all the types of mitigation you want, mathematically, it cannot compete with an average damage mitigation of 75%.

You want an example?

Standing in a juiced T16/T17 Chayula Breach with monster Frenzy Charges and max Charges, extra projectiles, boosted attack and cast and movement speed, which one do you think will last longer?

The player with almost no mitigation but 90% effective Block, automated Steelskin and CI

or

The player with Divine Flesh, Cloak of Flame, Arctic Armour, 18% Phys taken as Chaos, 90% max ele res and automated Immortal Call?

Doesn't even have to be Chayula, by the way, it's just the easier example to drive home a point.

Next, you will misinterpret this exact comparison again and spin it around in my face and say "See?! I told you!", completely missing the point again.

Layered defenses is one thing, but capped Block covering like 90% of those is fucking stupid.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

completely missing the point again.

No, we all get your point. We just disagree.

Some of us just believes we are, at some point in progression, supposed to "last" (your word) in the endgame. I like the fact that PoE doesn't shy away from actually giving you the "power hunt" we're all playing ARPGs to chase.

Again, sure, if they'd nerf the endgame to the point where (what you call) "OP defenses" aren't needed to survive, I'd be all for nerfs... But that isn't going to happen.

I like block :D

Leaving aside that somewhat questionable "mitigation" setup of yours, enough mitigation along with some sort of autorecovery like flask leech + insta leech or DoD or untiring or whatever means you can chill in whatever mobs you like for as long as you like. It's pretty much the same as any Aegis Aurora setup and similar shit. The trick is to reduce damage per hit to a level where your heal outpaces it. So no, a block setup won't necessarily last longer. It's just more brain dead to implement.

Also if 50/50 block is your idea of OP then i have to tell you that your idea of balance died several years ago. 50/50 block with versatile combatant was trash, Gladiator was a meme ascendancy for years because of it. If you want to turn the clock back to 3.08 or whatever then that's on you but the reality is, it's not going to happen and i don't think many people aside from you want it. I certainly don't.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

Again, sure, if they'd nerf the endgame to the point where (what you call) "OP defenses" aren't needed to survive, I'd be all for nerfs... But that isn't going to happen.

Isn’t endgame already in a piss easy state? If we start nerfing every single defensive layer to the ground and nerf endgame even further until everyone ends up playing nothing but glass cannons, we might as well just rename the game to Diablo 3, or maybe even start asking for set items with 3000% more damage lines, because that’s exactly what this game is turning into with all these changes.

Having a wide variety of defensive options is actually a good thing. The real problem is that there’s barely any content left that actually pushes well-optimized characters, outside of high end giga-juiced mapping. That’s what needs attention, not gutting what little depth we still have.