Proposed Solution to Elementalist Nerfs in 3.26
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Cheers Rapind.
Yeah, totally different build, but same idea. That gear though, oof. Way outside my price range. There are multiple items there worth about the same as my entire build combined. I fear you may be correct, though. It just seems an odd & frustrating design choice. The class balance has been, with the exception of a couple broken ascendancies from time to time, really stable for years & years, so I really don't understand this move to make witches all glass cannons. It almost seems like they intentionally want to see one-shots with the conditional Cloak of Flames defensive layer? Ah well. I guess all one can do is hope some QA pass from devs spots this thread (or one like it) and stops for a moment to think. |
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Dude, I gotta reject your original premise that golemancers are now weaker. This is a HUGE buff in a lot of ways. And the funny thing is it seems your only REAL issue is the loss of PDR on chaos golems. Even discounting the damage over time bonus, 17% chaos resistances is....great actually. 100% increase golem buff effect used to be 6%, maybe 8% if you pushed your golem level. Now that same buff effect on a level 20 golem is 34% chaos resistance. SO, you can take Chaos Resistance off a body armor and boom, 9% PDR from that easier-to-craft suffix mod.
Also, you and others saying that nearby ignited enemies convert 40% of chaos damage to fire is not as strong are confusing me more than a little. If you can ignite reasonably quickly (shouldn't be hard) and keep targets ignited, then that's about 20 times better than 3-6% PDR. If 40% of physical is converted to fire, and I have 75% fire resistance, that means I have about 30% pdr AND my armour is more affective against the remaining physical hit AND bleeds caused by those monsters will do 40% less dmg (as well as phys based poison btw). The analysis makes me think you really misunderstand the game's mechanics. My fear is that they over-buffed it and it will get decimated again mid-league. I will admit that if you are doing golems as your main source of damage, then you are probably right, necro likely to be better. I'd add that that was probably always the case. But if you're using golems for the buffs, it's a straight buff across the board. |
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I appreciate the blunt take. I hope you'll bear with me as I go through the whys & hows one by one?
" Can you outline how? We now have the option to get: DoT Multi - useless for minion build Improved Wither - useless for non-Necro Increased AoE - useless for minion build Improved Dmg - useless for minion build Crit chance - useless for minion build Attack/Cast Speed - useless for minion build Mana Regen - useless for minion build Buff to Carrion DPS - useless for Golem-specific build as carrion is weak w/o other minions Chaos res - discussed more later, not that great or hard-to-find though. & finally 20% increase Defences - The only real buff vs. 3.25, and a somewhat modest one at that compared to losses " That is the biggest blow, but the 250% Golem buff effect from Elemancer & the fact that Necro is now better than Elementalist in every way are also both factors. " Those are the numbers at play if you're just running Necro w/o any golem buff effect & only 1 golem, but not how it used to work for Elementalist. Chaos golem in 3.25 gave me 43% physical dmg reduction -there is no crafting that on chestpiece. Maybe the chaos res is nice if you're not CI, but chaos res is easy to find elsewhere even if not. Phys dmg reduction isn't. " Again, 43% phys dmg red, not 3-6%, so that might explain it a bit. " I noted that, when active, these new nodes could be up to 39% less dmg earlier in the conversation (assuming 90% fire res = 36% less dmg & ~3% from Winter node). But the issue is minion builds are not typically self-cast igniting all enemies at all times, and this will make off-screen 1-shot hits the order of the day if your defence relies on you casting a spell before anyone can hit you. On a proliferation & ailment duration build, it is huge, but minion build is going to have no natural prolif & duration of about 3 secs. " Nope, just that golems used to play by different rules. I understand your confusion though, hopefully my explanations above cleared things up. " You're 100% correct here. The fire node is extremely exploitable and vulnerable to emergency nerfs, and I'd be shocked if it survives even 1 season, because of how OPed it is for self-cast ignite builds. But I hope I explained above why it doesn't work as well for minion builds. " Better DPS, yes. Usually by about 30% or so, maybe a bit more. But up to now, Necros didn't have the tankiness of Elementalist golemancer, who had 250% to 400% more golem buff effect, an extra golem & elemental immunity on minions. Also not being forced to take LotP with forbidden jewels opens up other options like Profane Bloom for clear, one of the Necro nodes, or more jewel stacking. " I refer you to first portion, & remind that I'm talking minion builds here. I acknowledge that this is a buff (though still nowhere near enough to make a solid meta) for self-cast witches using elemental dmg spells. Edit: Small clarification & 1 typo Edit #2: 2 more typos. -I need to watch my typing xD Edit #3: Forgot a minor point, added it. Last edited by Draíocht#0144 on Jun 8, 2025, 4:19:55 AM
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Too many rabid "GGG can do know wrong" minion haters in this thread.
I the nerfs seem bad for the entire class, not just the fun golem builds. RIP. Last edited by LennyGhoul#7115 on Jun 8, 2025, 6:21:55 AM
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I might be missing something, but it seems to me that Golems got massive buffs? You get way more from golems now than ever before. Losing the phys reduction hurts for sure, but we did gain quite a bit as well? Also we get 180% increased golem buff from ascend and nodes in tree. While likely going to be expensive, necro now can get all of the golem buffs with just the ascendancy jewels... is that not huge when obtainable? Also the reductions from primordial neck were reduced which should also be a buff if you want to use it?
I'm trying to type this out kinda quickly, but those are mostly legitimate questions and less argumentation. lol |
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The Elementalist changes are really not a nerf, just a rework. Sure, if you insist on playing the exact same build the exact same way, you'll be weaker than before. Specific existing builds got nerfed.
But... you don't have to do that? Nobody is making you pretend that a balance patch didn't change anything. Why do so many people refuse to play new builds every league? Genuinely asking, it makes no sense to me; I've enjoyed this game for almost 12 years now, specifically because I don't ever have to play the same build twice. I'd have quit a LONG time ago if there weren't new builds to figure out and play. |
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" Arguement, questions, its all good. I'm happy to share what I know for questions, and debate the salient points cordially if you disagree. " If by "you" you mean me, then no, my Golemancer character has really not gained anything meaningful to compensate for the loss, just a bit of ES & armour (less than 5% of phys max hit vs. what was taken away in PDR). If by "you" you mean one who plays the game, then the best answer is.... sort of. Self cast (/attack) builds will find golems more beneficial to DPS to have around, though there are still some limits, here is why: A) Golems buffs are only useful if the golem is around, meaning they need to stay alive, which means investing heavily into minion life & regen (this factor hasn't changed since 3.25, by the way). This is not hugely relevant in early game, but by juiced T17s & uber bosses, Golems without heavy investment rarely last 3 secs, and still won't be too useful. B) We are (based on what I've seen) not gaining any golem buff effect, rather, we are losing a large amount (which came from removed Elemancer node). Even if you're thrilled with the % increases to golem buffs outlined in patch notes, Golem-focused characters are losing so much buff effect that it is a nerf (20% x +250% = 70% vs. 30% x +100% = 60%). " Oh, yes, absolutely. These changes are an undeniable buff to Necromancer Golemancers. The problem is Necromancer Golemancers have always been, and even w/ changes still are, inferior to basically all other specialised Necromancer minion builds (which themselves are often inferior to more hybrid styles). This is a problem on two levels, actually. I) The Ascendancy who actually has the node can't really use it (because Elementalist is now worse in every way than Necro). II) The Ascendancy who can use it is buffed, but still is better served focusing elsewhere. (Edit: What Necro in their right mind would take Liege of the Primordial to focus on Golems, when Profane Bloom is an option w/ different minions who have +100% more DPS and as of 3.26, no less defence than Golemancer?) " I missed that change, interesting... But no, actually, it really changes nothing at all. The reason is the negative side effect of the Primordial Chain, namely that you can't use any minions except Golems, means Necromancers are still poorly served using it, and those who originally used it (Elementalist Golemancers) are now inferior to Necromancers. Thanks for the questions, this is the kind of back & forth that moves the conversation forward. Edit: Fixed formatting mistake Last edited by Draíocht#0144 on Jun 11, 2025, 6:33:39 AM
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" This is exactly what I'm objecting to. True, the changes are a rework that makes some (not all) self-cast builds better, but makes other existing builds worse. My objection is that the builds it makes better (self-cast builds) are now exploitably good in some ways (phys to fire conv. on a prolif ignite build) but still leaves Elementalists disadvantaged compared to other Ascendancies (almost all other Ascendancies for Witch, Templar, & Shadow have more +dmg nodes than Elementalist unless you're focusing on ignite). There was a great post a couple days ago on this. Meanwhile, the builds it makes worse (Golemancer) were already very weak and needed a buff. The only advantage it had was being a minion build that was tanky, but had -50% to -65% less DPS than most other minion builds. Now, it has low DPS and isn't even tanky anymore. I don't consider the nerfing of an already off-meta build to be an inherantly good thing. It reduces build diversity, renders certain choices objectively "bad", and drives the game ever further towards a paradigm of "follow the build guide exactly or you're screwed". " ??? I thought the whole point of this forum sub-category was feedback on changes? Of course things have changed. Why would I pretend patch didn't change things? " Now this is a fair point. And doubtlessly why they change the meta so often, too. I can't speak for so many people, but for me, specifically, Golemancer has been for the past 4 years my go to class for league start & certain things like safe farming of bosses where you only get 1 portal (like kingsmarch Pirate this past league for example). Having a class which you know, which you have played before, & which you can fall back on for new content is a good safety net. Especially for players who aren't so hardcore that they farm mirrors every league to trivialize all content no matter the build, or for people who prefer not to just pick what they play based on whatever meta build guide shows up first on youtube. After I create my golemancer, have a functioning char who can finish maps other chars fail (only 1 portal left, want to kill the boss, or whatever), I create my "alts", which are exactly what you mentioned. Trying out something new, using the new skill that was introduced, seeing if you can build a char around some new item. But that experimental spirit is not possible, unless you're really, really hardcore (or following a buide guide online), without a ringer in your pocket to help out when you just, for example, blew all of your div on a build that bombs. Edit: Forgot to finish a sentence & corrected spelling. Edit #2: Added a sentence to finish an incomplete thought. Last edited by Draíocht#0144 on Jun 10, 2025, 5:38:50 AM
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I think they should make the Necromancer one and only Summoner Ascendency (Just name it summoner or something) and put Golem Nodes in it. This whole Undead or Golem choice is whats ultimately limiting the use of Golems imho.
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" Golems as summons (especially flame and lightning) are insanely powerful this league. I did ubers with them, so they are far from being weak. The new helmet along with the changes to shock and golem node on elementalist passive is a huge power boost not a nerf. They way I see it most golem enjoyers are stuck in the past with Pledge of hands and Brass dome instead of going CI and Rare Wand or coming up other solutions. |
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