GGG, XP loss should obviously be on top of the issue queue.

SSF

Look at how hot the xp loss topics are, players REALLY care about this issue.

This is also a complicated issue.

Players are frustrated with xp loss, that is obvious. GGG wants xp loss in the game- and so do I. I think its needed.

However, it is the MOST frustrating thing in the game for me at the moment. Like, quit the game annoyed.

Unfortunately, most player issues with the game, that often result in character death- is linked to this issue. So its complex to fix because its global, and boolean on/off approaches are juvenile. There is far more nuance to explore.

Lets peel at some layers.


#1 Players are annoyed because xp loss is taking away things already earned.

Xp loss on death is blind. It is a static punishment for a dynamic crime. I complete a map, die in the next map, lose MULTIPLE previous MAPS exp. The punishment does not fit the crime. The punishment is more the higher the player level(exponentially). Often when players die, they may die multiple times to the same thing- this greatly increases the MAGNITUDE(ha) of player frustration.


#2 Players are dying in confusion.

The vision is interaction, meaning clarity is paramount.
Getting insta popped, sometimes by invisible things, is quite confusing and will obviously raise xp loss hate. Players do not know why they are being penalized, so they can't adjust behavior(obviously frustrating). This issue includes a vast spectrum of possibilities including bad players and different classes.


#3 Certain mobs are out of balance.

Keep in mind ranged vs melee dramatically effect feelings here.
Even when you know why you die, its often because of a specific mob.
Large groups of crabs, especially untainted paradise crabs.
Poison pools and fire pools do insane damage.
Lightning often does insane damage. So much so that I pretty much only fear lightning. Specifically feather hat skeletons, the small lightning corruption spawns, the small delirium spawns. Lightning is also very fast projectile travel- combine the two and it creates very frustrating situations that are NOT INTERACTIVE(wink). Especially if you get groups all firing together. POPRAGE.


#4 Due to these imbalances, specific playstyles are invalidated.

Untainted paradise crabs as melee, good luck. Range, spread, high firerate, ice. These are a few of my favorite things. This forces a ranged playstyle, or only using abilities that fire very fast. Again, this is non interactive behavior, violating the original vision. It goes without saying, this throws away a lot build options, and safely eliminates fun.


#5 Imbalance of mob rarity.

I do not fear mob rarity. I fear specific mobs. If the mobs is nuts, they will be nuts in all forms. Normal feather hat lightning skeleton... group, sweating- just one, chilling. Blue group of them, being careful- but usually they are split up, still one might get a random big hit. Yellow, easy, just time it right. The answer to all of them is the same, timing. Meaning that since blue and yellow tend to be a little more separated- they are easier than normals that are usually in a pile(ranged crabs anyone?).
Vaal mobs. A category all their own, which personally I do not like. Fast, high dmg, shitloads of heavy lightning damage. Basically, if its vaal and shoots lightning, my eyes are wide and fingers fast. In these situations I completely change my playstyle- I run. Run, turn and kill, keep running- NEVER run deeper in. If you don't have a good movespeed you're probly just effed.
Oh yeah, one more, bosses. I actually think these are great, the boss fights are actually amazing.


#6 Balance is hard when movement speed is hard to find. Belts, charms, do that. Don't think about it, just do it. Nike.

#7 Exp gain does not scale with exp loss.

This is the definition of grind. No one outside of a clurb actually wants to grind(except for you degenerates objecting right now).
This doesn't need to be explained, does it? I'm not sure.
As you get higher levels, levels require more exp. The rate at which you can gain exp falls off the higher your level. I'm not sure we want to fix this, but we should fix it, because its the opposite of fun.
Skill should be rewarded. I've had other posts about exp scaling bonus ideas.
If something isn't fun, maybe people aren't doing it because its not fun- not because its difficult. In Diablo, everyone is hitting max level, because its braindead. Here, its very rare to hit max level, because no one is old enough to have done it yet.

If you read all of this, I'm as surprised as I am that I typed all of this.

1. Exp loss is balanced around how often they are expecting you should be dying appropriate to your level, it can be heavily mitigated by using a cheap omen. 2.5% exp loss makes it incredibly negligible so its not really a huge hindrance unless your dying several times per map, in which case you need to do lower maps until your ready. SSF is a self imposed challenge that the game isnt balanced around.

2. I disagree with most your points, I have 5 days, 12 hours played this league and I dont see the game this way, I feel like most mechanics currently are very fair and I havent encountered anything randomly one shotting me that I couldnt have avoided.

3. Even if you were "correct" then the solution is to fix these imbalances, not to start removing other mechanics so that your less annoyed the game isnt balanced yet.

+1 OP

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

1. Exp loss is balanced around how often they are expecting you should be dying appropriate to your level, it can be heavily mitigated by using a cheap omen. 2.5% exp loss makes it incredibly negligible so its not really a huge hindrance unless your dying several times per map, in which case you need to do lower maps until your ready. SSF is a self imposed challenge that the game isnt balanced around.

2. I disagree with most your points, I have 5 days, 12 hours played this league and I dont see the game this way, I feel like most mechanics currently are very fair and I havent encountered anything randomly one shotting me that I couldnt have avoided.

3. Even if you were "correct" then the solution is to fix these imbalances, not to start removing other mechanics so that your less annoyed the game isnt balanced yet.

Are you lvl 96+ ?

Until lvl 90 its a non issue. If you are regularly going to 95 and above then it becomes a BIG issue. Exp bar movement forwards is somewhat fine. It should not move backwards on such high levels tho.

XP loss feels rough because progression is thin. Gear upgrades are rare, crafting is limited, and with no steady forward motion, XP ends up doing all the heavy lifting. But if you take XP loss out, you hollow out the game. The real fix is building more meaningful progression around it—so it matters, but doesn’t break you.

Remove exp loss. [Removed by Support] just pisses people off. It adds nothing of value to the game.

There's no need to nerf the game because you're playing poorly.
If you don't want to lose experience points, just don't die.

"

There's no need to nerf the game because you're playing poorly.
If you don't want to lose experience points, just don't die.

people like you just love to condense a complex and controversial subject down to a dismissive post trying to shift the blame entirely on the player. you bring nothing of value to this discussion and look like an elitist jerk.

Get ride of exp loss or lower it only to the map exp you died in.

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

1. Exp loss is balanced around how often they are expecting you should be dying appropriate to your level, it can be heavily mitigated by using a cheap omen. 2.5% exp loss makes it incredibly negligible so its not really a huge hindrance unless your dying several times per map, in which case you need to do lower maps until your ready. SSF is a self imposed challenge that the game isnt balanced around.

2. I disagree with most your points, I have 5 days, 12 hours played this league and I dont see the game this way, I feel like most mechanics currently are very fair and I havent encountered anything randomly one shotting me that I couldnt have avoided.

3. Even if you were "correct" then the solution is to fix these imbalances, not to start removing other mechanics so that your less annoyed the game isnt balanced yet.

1. 10% exp loss from level 70-100 is not dynamic in any way. Omen is a bandaid, although pretty wild they cut the loss by 75%. I only mentioned ssf for perspective/context.

2. I mentioned very specific cases I thought were issues. Have you ran into those?

3. Yes, the solution is to fix the imbalances, thats what I meant to imply.