nice Thunderfist gloves to break game balance

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aimlessgun wrote:

They're very very good gloves.

As for the 'discussion' in this this thread, nobody is even bothering to try and define what 'overpowered' means. Overpowered where, in what situations? HC, default? PvP, PvE? Lvling to 100 or farming wealth?



As for map mods, it's not like you can't switch your damn gloves for certain mods.

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aimlessgun wrote:

They're very very good gloves.

"

aimlessgun wrote:

As for the 'discussion' in this this thread, nobody is even bothering to try and define what 'overpowered' means. Overpowered where, in what situations? HC, default? PvP, PvE? Lvling to 100 or farming wealth?

"

aimlessgun wrote:

As for map mods, it's not like you can't switch your damn gloves for certain mods.

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Wishinan wrote:

No one would disagree with that.

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Wishinan wrote:

You're discounting surprise deaths, like an LA ranger doing dmg on offscreen lightning thorn mobs etc.

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Wishinan wrote:

"

Mark0716 wrote:

thanks for explanation for some information which everyone knows, my teacher.

i am saying both end game unique item with their weakness which is obvious to see.
but these gloves 's weakness come from a mod from map only.

A mod from map only?

Really?

I can already think of 3.

1) -25 Max Resists

2) Monsters reflect 20% Elemental Damage

3) Lightning Thorns

"

LazerTechnoBuddha wrote:

"

Wishinan wrote:

"

Mark0716 wrote:

thanks for explanation for some information which everyone knows, my teacher.

i am saying both end game unique item with their weakness which is obvious to see.
but these gloves 's weakness come from a mod from map only.

A mod from map only?

Really?

I can already think of 3.

1) -25 Max Resists

2) Monsters reflect 20% Elemental Damage

3) Lightning Thorns

1) why is this a problem for the gloves? yes they are glass cannon, that doesn't mean the rest of your setup is. this alone doesnt affect the gloves in any way (except for a loss of defenses, which is easily made up for by skills and other gear slots, you know kinda like poeple do with kaoms)

2) this is a problem for all high dps/low defense chars, again i will point out, it is realistic to get to 84-85 all res without any res on your gloves easily, at which point reflect doesnt hurt at all

the real danger of this is combined with another mod like -max res og ele weakness curse, but as others have already pointed out, why would you roll these mods and think "this map with this char is a really good idea"? some monsters use elem weakness and some bosses have reflect, so off course you arent safe if you just always reroll these map mods, but these monsters are quite rare and are easily spotted. my point most of these gloves bad side can be circumvented through a little strategy (just like kaoms) and alone none of these mods should be dangerous for you, only when combined (but that goes for most builds)

3) i dont know why so many of you specifically mentions this as dangerous for the gloves? lightning thorns is monster mechanic that can be build around, and therefore is more a problem of the attack you are using than the gear (assuming max res and decent amount of life). LA rangers are hit hard here because of the way most people setup their LA attack with chain and lmp. if lightning thorns is a big problem for you, try removing chain, your attack will deal far more dmg per hit and wont hit as many times resulting in far less lightning thorns damage.
now most people probably arent willing to do that, but here is my beef with that,(some of) you are willing to discredit these gloves totally because of a spike in offensive powers, but a counter strategy like removing chain, through it will reduce your dps, it also greatly boost your survivability against this mechanic is a no go (assuming here i know)

my point is the 3 points you make is only dangerous if you are unprepared for them and they are combined with atleast one of the other.

also as a side note, some claim these are bad because of no defense and then claim kaoms is good because where its lackluster, it can be made up for by the rest of your gear resulting in a massive boost to HP, look at these the same way: make up for the minor loss of defense through skills and other gear and you will have a massive net gain of damage - does this make them op, maybe not, haven't tried them so cant say, what i can say though is: if you havent tested them you cant say that they are not OP or even bad, because you dont know! but when looking at these gloves all alarm bells are ringing that these might be unbalanced

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LazerTechnoBuddha wrote:

1) why is this a problem for the gloves? yes they are glass cannon, that doesn't mean the rest of your setup is. this alone doesnt affect the gloves in any way (except for a loss of defenses, which is easily made up for by skills and other gear slots, you know kinda like poeple do with kaoms)

"

LazerTechnoBuddha wrote:

2) this is a problem for all high dps/low defense chars, again i will point out, it is realistic to get to 84-85 all res without any res on your gloves easily, at which point reflect doesnt hurt at all

the real danger of this is combined with another mod like -max res og ele weakness curse, but as others have already pointed out, why would you roll these mods and think "this map with this char is a really good idea"? some monsters use elem weakness and some bosses have reflect, so off course you arent safe if you just always reroll these map mods, but these monsters are quite rare and are easily spotted. my point most of these gloves bad side can be circumvented through a little strategy (just like kaoms) and alone none of these mods should be dangerous for you, only when combined (but that goes for most builds)

"

LazerTechnoBuddha wrote:

3) i dont know why so many of you specifically mentions this as dangerous for the gloves? lightning thorns is monster mechanic that can be build around, and therefore is more a problem of the attack you are using than the gear (assuming max res and decent amount of life). LA rangers are hit hard here because of the way most people setup their LA attack with chain and lmp. if lightning thorns is a big problem for you, try removing chain, your attack will deal far more dmg per hit and wont hit as many times resulting in far less lightning thorns damage.
now most people probably arent willing to do that, but here is my beef with that,(some of) you are willing to discredit these gloves totally because of a spike in offensive powers, but a counter strategy like removing chain, through it will reduce your dps, it also greatly boost your survivability against this mechanic is a no go (assuming here i know)

my point is the 3 points you make is only dangerous if you are unprepared for them and they are combined with atleast one of the other.

also as a side note, some claim these are bad because of no defense and then claim kaoms is good because where its lackluster, it can be made up for by the rest of your gear resulting in a massive boost to HP, look at these the same way: make up for the minor loss of defense through skills and other gear and you will have a massive net gain of damage - does this make them op, maybe not, haven't tried them so cant say, what i can say though is: if you havent tested them you cant say that they are not OP or even bad, because you dont know! but when looking at these gloves all alarm bells are ringing that these might be unbalanced

"

Wishinan wrote:

Except the fact that those Kaom users already have difficulties max-ing res.



I'm assuming you're saying 84-85 ele res, thats definitely achievable. But if you were saying 85 all res including chaos, and you could get 85-85-85-85 without gloves, and you also use kaoms and alpha howl's, please link me your godly gear.

I guess if said monsters were rare and easily spotted, a huge majority of la rangers are actually idiots who easily see a pack of lightning thorn mobs and insist on spraying them down with la and whine about thorns being op? Definitely not.



In this thread, I guess people are discussing whether Thunderfist is too imbalanced or not. I fully understand your point, but you also have to know my stand. I agree that thunderfist is a very good pair of gloves, but I disagree with those saying its op. Maybe if you weren't a Kaoms heart+alpha howl's user and you could max res without gloves, then this gloves would be the perfect pair for you.

But the fact is a huge majority of players can't even get 80-80-80-80 even with gloves. I almost don't know any Kaoms heart+alpha howl's player who has 80-80-80-80 even with yellow gloves.

And the fact that POE penalises death be it in softcore/hardcore. It remains that sustainability will always be more highly valued then dps.

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pengant wrote:

Just thought i'd point out there are plenty of players that have 85 to all res whilst using a Kaom's and Alphas. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they arn't there.

I don't know any players that can afford a Kaom's and Alpha's and cant afford to max their resistances :P

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Jakabov wrote:

OP is ridiculous, but so are those gloves. They should never have made it into the game. In a game where elemental damage is already overpowered while physical damage is massively underpowered, why the shitting fuck would you keep making uniques that buff elemental damage even further? These gloves are staggeringly overpowered.