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It seems like the power increase progression of the character and mobs are too close together, similar to what is with "level scaling" in roleplay games, where the content scales up/down to your level.
I think what you're describing is a difficulty curve that wanes with progression, effectively meaning that the game starts difficult and it only gets easier. While the current game increases your power and skills, but the enemies are also strong to match them. Ideally, since some builds could use more buffs and some outliers at the top could get nerfs. But if the issue is that you're not raking in monsters like they're nothing by the endgame, that means you've effectively stopped having a game. For instance, for those who enjoyed the challenge of the early game, the late game would be a bore. Long term, I think, it's better to cultivate a player base who invites challenges at the endgame than one who wants an easy one.
Kinda, and kinda not.
So, the problem is not that the monster power level goes up with your power level because, like you said, you want some sort of challenge, especially in the endgame, or it would be boring.
BUT that should normally apply to specific mobs that are dangerous to your build, or rare mobs, or juiced content, or bosses and not to everything.
I kid you not... I had a white mob without anything buffing his damage, hit me for 3.5k with a single ranged attack, and that's not a rare occasion.
The imbalance is just out of hand. It doesn't make sense that you can 1v1 "gods" but some "trash mob" is as dangerous.
And we already had this problem for years in PoE1. It became a meme, but it's based on reality when ppl say "a white skeleton oneshot me off-screen".
Regarding the past about specific things that counter your build...
I've been thinking recently that a pretty big barrier to me feeling like the combat is meaningful, is an overall lack of agency in engaging in combat. As soon as a monster is on screen it's already aggro. I can't see a monster across the way that's going to brick me, and choose to avoid it. With killing rares being a requirement, if a monster did brick my build I couldn't just skip it. I wonder if increasing the zoom by like 50% would create more engaging combat. That and not having killing the rares be the map completion (I'm not even convinced the majority of maps need an explicit completion requirement anyways), would give them an avenue to make actually powerful, dangerous, and build deleting monsters. It would give me the ability to scope out a pack and decide if the potential reward is worth the risk. Of course this only fits in the slow vision version of the game. As it is, late game doesn't feel incredibly different from 1.
Last edited by KaosuRyoko#1633 on Apr 12, 2025, 9:15:26 PM
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Posted byKaosuRyoko#1633on Apr 12, 2025, 9:15:10 PM
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The last patch had a bug where white minions had too much health. That obviously gets fixed since it's unintended. Sometimes it could be that the monster looks white, but it's a minion receiving buffs from the rare, but they look normal from a distance. Or a very specific buff from the map modifiers. I'm not saying it feels like ass to get that, but there's probably also a reason for it if it's not a broken line of code doing that.
I know about the "minion mod" that had 400% bonus life, and I know about map mods and how they influence outcomes yadda yadda.
Like... I have way over 10k hours in PoE1, 1k in PoE2, played all classes basically SSF into endgame at least once (some multiple times) in 0.1.0 and had no issues at all.
Sure, the warrior was not enjoyable in the early campaign for me, but that changed in cruel.
That said, something was and is still wrong.
In 0.1.0 and 0.2.0, white mobs in the Acts (without map mods) and even in late game hit sometimes so incredibly hard - it doesn't make sense.
Don't get me wrong... I am in red maps and died only 2 times in all maps I ran, BUT... I have to "game" every... single... pack because of the white mobs, not the rares.
So a little triage. It's either intentional or a bug. If a bug, hopefully they notice why since many are complaining about it. If it's intentional there are two options too. They wanted to make whites stronger and they either went accidentally overboard or they are exactly what they wanted. The worst case is that this is intended, which means they want whites to be a threat too. If there weren't any ways to counter it, it would be too punishing. But if a change in how people engage with the monsters is how this is solved, then it's up to the player to change strategy. For instance, I see the round-em-up strategy of taking many white mobs around and then killing them at once doesn't work here, but it did in PoE1 and other games I guess. So people go do that and find they can't handle too many small monsters at once. But they do that so unconsciously now that they think the problem is with the game. Nobody forced them to round up to so many monsters before killing them, and if they could have targeted them little by little instead of all at once, that would have worked. That's how I play at least, and when I see streamers doing a round up and then yelling they can't kill them I think they're just not playing the game in front of their eyes, but the one in their imagination.
Impatience is insatiable.
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Posted byGorbarr#2442on Apr 12, 2025, 9:20:41 PM
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@hboi - ggg actually made you so powerful you completed the first runthrough after clicking character create. It just happened so fast you missed it.
Seriously though, the game is won in builds. For those of us who learn to make builds, the game is too *easy*.. the only bosses i had to tske myltiple tries at in my furst 0.2 runthrough were act 2 jamars, act 6 viper, and act 6 dorani. Viper was by far the hardest.. and this was SSF
The campaign is actually a fair test. After learning the mechanics back in 0.1, my boss runs were pretty clean in 0.2. Even got my first two ascendancies on my first try at their recommended levels where I had to over level them significantly back on the 0.1 release.
Endgame is still seriously disconnected though, with 10 rare mobs in T1 maps and mob density that makes the most dense areas on Act 3 cruel look sparse by comparison. It's not even the same game, not even close.
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Posted byChef Ref 77#8129on Apr 12, 2025, 9:30:18 PM
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In one big update you ruined this game. This game is supposed to be an ARPG.
It's not Sekiro.
It's not First Berserker Khazan.
It's not a bullet hell.
I should not need insane reflexes to fight a boss. I should not need to be avoiding so much shit on my screen that I can't even tell what is going on.
The original launch of POE2 was some of the most fun I've had with an ARPG. This update is absolute trash.
The amount of stuff you need to dodge hasn't changes since EA came out lil bro, they actually made everything visually easier to dodge so I don't know what to tell ya
Last edited by xpose#1651 on Apr 12, 2025, 9:32:23 PM
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Posted byxpose#1651on Apr 12, 2025, 9:31:36 PM
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So a little triage. It's either intentional or a bug. If a bug, hopefully they notice why since many are complaining about it. If it's intentional there are two options too. They wanted to make whites stronger and they either went accidentally overboard or they are exactly what they wanted. The worst case is that this is intended, which means they want whites to be a threat too. If there weren't any ways to counter it, it would be too punishing. But if a change in how people engage with the monsters is how this is solved, then it's up to the player to change strategy. For instance, I see the round-em-up strategy of taking many white mobs around and then killing them at once doesn't work here, but it did in PoE1 and other games I guess. So people go do that and find they can't handle too many small monsters at once. But they do that so unconsciously now that they think the problem is with the game. Nobody forced them to round up to so many monsters before killing them, and if they could have targeted them little by little instead of all at once, that would have worked. That's how I play at least, and when I see streamers doing a round up and then yelling they can't kill them I think they're just not playing the game in front of their eyes, but the one in their imagination.
Normally, I would think it's a mistake/bug/overtuned/whatever, but let me give you an example.
So, GGG always tells us that they want the combat of PoE2 to be "more meaningful", not as zoom-zoom giga-blast like it is in PoE1. That we don't just ignore enemies and so on, BUT then they introduced "wisps" with this patch.
On the surface, these "touched" mobs are a bit stronger, but in isolation, manageable. The issue is - it does not fit their design philosophy.
When you encounter a wisp, you follow it, right!? While you follow it, it empowers (touches) the monsters in its path. You now have to deal with these monsters now, right? Makes sense so far.
The problem is, in reality (unless you have a strong meta build) you have to kite sometimes these mobs while fighting them and or change your direction for whatever reason - and because of the short range of the wisps - they disappear.
So, every time you have to gain distance because you fight - you lose the wisp.
That intensifies ppl to ignore the wisps because they can't reliably follow them OR to play builds that can delete everything as fast as possible, to not lose the connection to the wisp.
That's... counter-productive regarding their "vision".
A simple fix could change that, but I doubt this will be a thing:
Wisps just wait where you have seen them the last time until you return (done fighting shit).
[Removed by Support]
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Posted byJakkerONAIR#4902on Apr 12, 2025, 9:35:50 PM
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Normally, I would think it's a mistake/bug/overtuned/whatever, but let me give you an example.
So, GGG always tells us that they want the combat of PoE2 to be "more meaningful", not as zoom-zoom giga-blast like it is in PoE1. That we don't just ignore enemies and so on, BUT then they introduced "wisps" with this patch.
On the surface, these "touched" mobs are a bit stronger, but in isolation, manageable. The issue is - it does not fit their design philosophy.
When you encounter a wisp, you follow it, right!? While you follow it, it empowers (touches) the monsters in its path. You now have to deal with these monsters now, right? Makes sense so far.
The problem is, in reality (unless you have a strong meta build) you have to kite sometimes these mobs while fighting them and or change your direction for whatever reason - and because of the short range of the wisps - they disappear.
So, every time you have to gain distance because you fight - you lose the wisp.
That intensifies ppl to ignore the wisps because they can't reliably follow them OR to play builds that can delete everything as fast as possible, to not lose the connection to the wisp.
That's... counter-productive regarding their "vision".
A simple fix could change that, but I doubt this will be a thing:
Wisps just wait where you have seen them the last time until you return (done fighting shit).
This is true. They have to stop designing mechanics that go against the vision they keep defending. And balance the rest of the things that don't fit as well.
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Posted byGordyne#2944on Apr 12, 2025, 9:49:16 PM
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Normally, I would think it's a mistake/bug/overtuned/whatever, but let me give you an example.
So, GGG always tells us that they want the combat of PoE2 to be "more meaningful", not as zoom-zoom giga-blast like it is in PoE1. That we don't just ignore enemies and so on, BUT then they introduced "wisps" with this patch.
I can't vouch for every build of course, but these two extremes of the wisps experience is not something I've had happen. I don't think my build is meta (ritualist bleed is like 2%) but I manage to follow the wisps and deal with the monsters on the way just fine. I tend to focus solely on following the wisp until it reaches the rare and then fight the monsters. I would poke the monsters in the way just to get them to not bother me and keep following. You just need good crowd control, and for that you need to have also crowd control skills. I think people tunnel into the one skill to rule them all and ignore every other skill that isn't dps but can be useful for controlling mobs instead. I think that is what is part of the vision. "Combat" is about all the skills needed for all situations. If you find you can't follow wisps till the end without getting interrupted by the mobs, you're missing combat skills to deal with those.
Impatience is insatiable.
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Posted byGorbarr#2442on Apr 13, 2025, 12:47:22 AM
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Normally, I would think it's a mistake/bug/overtuned/whatever, but let me give you an example.
So, GGG always tells us that they want the combat of PoE2 to be "more meaningful", not as zoom-zoom giga-blast like it is in PoE1. That we don't just ignore enemies and so on, BUT then they introduced "wisps" with this patch.
I can't vouch for every build of course, but these two extremes of the wisps experience is not something I've had happen. I don't think my build is meta (ritualist bleed is like 2%) but I manage to follow the wisps and deal with the monsters on the way just fine. I tend to focus solely on following the wisp until it reaches the rare and then fight the monsters. I would poke the monsters in the way just to get them to not bother me and keep following. You just need good crowd control, and for that you need to have also crowd control skills. I think people tunnel into the one skill to rule them all and ignore every other skill that isn't dps but can be useful for controlling mobs instead. I think that is what is part of the vision. "Combat" is about all the skills needed for all situations. If you find you can't follow wisps till the end without getting interrupted by the mobs, you're missing combat skills to deal with those.
Sure. Different builds have or have not this issue, but it's about the general design of the mechanic.
Take my build for example, I play "Essence Drain - Contagion", that means my clear is good, but it takes a bit (because DoT-based) to actually do something.
The delay "I cast my stuff" until "stuff dies" is the time I have to play defensively - mostly kiting way from the mobs rushing me.
"Temporal Chains"? Yes. Is the "crowd control" that keeps me save.
"Dark Effigy"? Yes. Can take some aggro.
But it does not help with this issue.
[Removed by Support]
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Posted byJakkerONAIR#4902on Apr 13, 2025, 1:05:09 AM
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This is what happens when you market a game for profit, to a market filled with people that aren't able to think and have money...
I've seen posts where people are upset they cant play with their KIDS and WIVES anymore..
GOOD!!!
FFS... Figure it out. There is murder and dead bodies everywhere! ITS THE AZTECTS!!!!!! THEY ATE PEOPLE in the hopes of RAIN!!!! This generation is failing their children every way they can.
GTA6 Here we go!
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Posted byMotomoto#6136on Apr 13, 2025, 1:36:19 AM
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I should not need insane reflexes to fight a boss. I should not need to be avoiding so much shit on my screen that I can't even tell what is going on.
I don't know what you talk about....Bosses are fair designed and theyr abilities well displayed.
Sounds like you want to 1-tap all content with potato gear & 1 button while watching Netflix. ^^
They're tons of ARPGs on the market where you can do so, in POE2 you have to pay attention while playing....sry. ;)
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With that thinking you would never succeed in the gaming industry. Wait till you realize that the consumers always reign supreme, and going against them is a very bad idea unless you know it's going to work.
Like Diablo 4, that is practicaly dead 2 weeks after a new season thanks to all the complainer who cried at the release that "it's to hard" till they've trivialize it to death? ^^
You and all the complainer are not the "consumer", most of you probalby didn't even bought the supporter pack and rather begged for a key in the forums.....we real consumer, who've supported GGG for years with supporter packs purchases every league meanwhile play & love the game.
Has it flaws?....yes, ofc...but instead of hating 24/7 we play the game instead and try to improve it with constructive feedback. ;)
Sorry but i buy a ARPG like poe , diablo , HK for white mobs while , or game plays using a bad synergy with frenzy critical in huntress is not fun , whats classe are you playing because im a real player , i got tatician but all nerfs like stun treshold , pin , eletrocution , cold only work for players , be colded in 1 mob hit is insane , 20 yea 20 chaos plants around me in a simples ritual map its not fun , the class are designed to use turrents while you atack the turrents work , and see 80% of my time is not causing damage justing rolling rolling rolling... this is fun for you this is STUPID GAME DEV to make the game workable just for the new class , is a heys guys dont play with another classes and asc , just play with this class hes broken and in a Barbie universe if you play in this style , if you talk about the game devs saw (no are you not using skills to combo) yea im not using nothing because you only play it with cast on dodge and stay rolling ... stupid way to think
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Posted byKotolino#2642on Apr 13, 2025, 4:00:19 AM
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