The Souls-like Dilemma.
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After playing the game for some time now it is becoming fairly clear that the hybrid style of play between a more "traditional" ARPG and a more "methodical" Souls-like gameplay is not working out.
PoE2 has many problems with its pacing that make it dysfunctional and frustrating. And I think these problems stem from such fundamental issues that tweaking some numbers or adding few support gems each patch will never fix them. Many of these examples are just my observations and probably nothing new, but I though that might as well share them. Dodgeroll
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Dodgeroll is a mechanic that should reward anticipation and reaction, but the vast majority of enemies simply do not have anything to anticipate. Most creatures simply run to your face and attack with a simple swipe that might as well be "damage on contact" type of effect. If you try to roll out of the way, these same creatures just follow you and surround you immediately after. In maps, the dodge is pretty much useless.
Bosses are probably the best part of the game, at least for me, but even they have a lot of different moves that can't be rolled away from. Like Queen of Filth and her rolling-slam. These may be bugs, who knows. In essence the game wants to have slow and methodical elements in its combat, but almost every enemy has been designed for a fast-paced ARPG. Skill Timing
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Skills that have long setup animations or channeling times are mostly unplayable in this environment. Again it feels like they were designed for a different game. The pacing of the game makes them feel increadibly clunky, and even when you get one off, don't die, and actually hit something, the damage is not that much better. So there is no payoff. Especially after the 0.2 patch.
And in a way, this is also an issue of bad enemy design. Pack Size
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If combat would actually be slow and methodical, one could imagine far fewer monsters in all stages of the game. Given that these enemies then should have far more meaningful mechanics within their kit, something that the player actually could try to learn and then avoid. With the flipside that their drops would be way more plentiful and/or valuable. Quality over quanity, basically.
But yet again; monster design. Flasks
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To me, current use of flasks feel like a bandaid for the aimless, flailing and chaotic pacing that the game has. Slamming "1" on my keyboard instantly after almost being one-shot has become an instinct. There is no though behind it, its just something that has to be done. In a slower, methodical system, instant usage of flasks would be quite overpowered. A short healing animation could add some real stakes to the mechanic.
Of course this would be only possible if the gameplay allowed for it. One-Shots & Enemy HP
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Maybe some one-shots are alright in a more "traditional" ARPG like PoE1, where it basically functions as a stat-check of sorts, in an environment where player power is off the charts already and challenging them is a very hard thing to do.
But in PoE2, player power has already been reduced to this "idea" of a souls-like. Killing things takes a very long time, even longer than in an actual souls-like. Some PoE2 bosses require 15 minutes to murder, while in Elden Ring the average boss fight lasts around 3-5 minutes. Long fight times only force players towards OP builds. Since after the initial 5 minutes, these fights begin to feel extremely dull, frustrating and brain dead. And then you get one-shot. At that point it really begins to feel like I should be doing anything else with my time. Movement Speed
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Now this might be a "hot take", but might as well share. I think that movement speed as a modifier is a mistake. I think that player MS should be set to somewhere around +20% from the current base, and then have all permanent modifiers to it removed.
Currently, movement speed is the number one defence of PoE2, it is the most important stat in the entire game bar none. Its not even close. All encounters, trash mobs, rares, bosses, hazards, all of them become substantially easier with MS. It is so important that if your boots don't have it, its not even an item. And I'd argue that balancing the game around scalable MS is way harder and is one of the reasons why most enemies suck. A static MS value would allow far greater control over how monsters behave. Also functional map sizes would be far easier to estimate. And there could be a new avenue for skill design, where bursts of MS could be added. And so on. These are by no means the only issues the game has, but my point here is that I think GGG needs to pick a lane. Are they going to make a proper ARPG with the foundations that they have, and possibly just make a continuation of PoE1? Or are they going to pivot deeper into the methodical end, and try to redefine the genre? I personally am hoping for the methodical direction, but actually making it happen would require some drastic changes, and I don't really expect it to happen. So I would be ok with either direction, as long as its not this 50/50 model. The current state of this game is not sustainable or interesting. It only has an "idea" of a methodical system, an "idea" that seems more of a problem than a boon. PoE2 has way too many contradicting mechanics and the overall pacing makes no sense. (Don't expect GGG to read these, but if you did, thanks <3) Last bumped on Apr 10, 2025, 1:31:59 PM
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Very interesting take, especially on the movement speed redesign.
Hope GGG have a look on this, maybe you could try reaching for a big streamer with those ideas. |
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I 100% agree, it feels like several design teams designed systems for 2 different genres and mashed them together.
I wanted to write something similar and deleted it because I thought screw it, GGG doesn`t care anyway :D |
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" Yeah the demand for good MS mods always feels a very oppressive part of the game. You just have to have it. If not, might as well not play. I'm pretty sure some bosses are impossible without at least some MS. (Might be wrong on that though.) Anyways, might as well bake it into the base kit of all players. And use it as a foundation for new skills or conditional uniques or whatever. " Yup, felt the same for a good while, kinda still do, but I guess I'll lose nothing by shouting into the void. :D |
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" They actually care. Please do not delete your thoughts and feedbacks. |
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+10000000000000000000
I also have this kind of view / opinion on the current state of Path of Exile 2. The game has to choose where it wants going to, because in my opinion, you can't design "souls-like" or meaningful tactical combat action game or whatever you want to call it, walk hand-in-hand in harmony with Path of Exile 1 system of itemization / randomization / "crafting" / balancing around trade, as the foundation of Path of Exile 2. The moment that PoE 1 power level is reached by players in PoE 2, all those meaningful combat action game gets thrown out of the window and the game basically become PoE 1. And the developers ended up balancing the game around that, around itemization and trade. Last edited by bewilder2#0356 on Apr 10, 2025, 9:54:16 AM
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Very interesting take on movement speed. Theoretically it makes sense to remove the stat completely and give all classes a fixed amount of movement speed. Then, maybe a mount could make sense for the player to go fast in large, open areas.
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" Haven't played with the Rhoa mount yet, but it sure looks dope. So not a bad idea there. |
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Only point that i disagree with is adding animation for flask use. That would be one more thing to make the game feel tedious and clunky.
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spitballing some ideas if you would push this more towards a top-down souls. lets make people really mad :D
-making flask use more tactical would be very good actually. it`s one of the most annoying aspects of D2 and a remnant of a distant past of poor game design. -making engagements more meaningful with less enemy density but clear telegraphs and attack patterns and also better rewards in turn. maybe give every class a parry, a perfect parry etc. more abilities like perfect strike where actual timing and skill matters, maybe even spell system based on timing. the better the timing, the bigger/more powerful the magic becomes - I don`t mind classes having different movement speeds tbh, no need for warrior to be as fast as a monk. as long as you have a mount or sprint button in your game for after the fight ;) - but they should look up how fast Hema or Shaolin fighters can be and work on animation speed - imagine a stealth system, sneaking up on enemies, or even a rogue class with backstab etc. |
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