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I can appreciate a well-thought-out post.
Not sure what is well-thought out about it. He is just regurgitating common complaints/ memes, phrasing them disingenuously, and omitting what GGG has already done to make them better in a short period with quick responses.
If it was a well-thought out post, it would have some substance and actually paint the picture of both the playerbase and GGG in this period. Instead it is just inflammatory nonsense birthed from degeneracy.
All he wants is attention. There is no feedback here.
Look everybody, it's the guy in the thread who wants to argue for the same of arguing! The OP gets the general point across quite clearly. If you don't comprehend it then that's on you.
You pretty much destroyed your whole response when you admitted the OP is 'regurgitating' [call it what you want] common complaints! Gee... I wonder why almost everybody 'commonly' doesn't like the current direction the game is going?! *Jeopardy theme song plays*
You think you're a part of the majority, when in reality you're just a loud minority. We're all in the game having fun.
230k, 230k, 240k, and 200k on monday as people went back to work. If it was as bad as everyone is making it out to be, that wouldn't happen. The majority just doesn't want to sit here and argue with y'all cause you're toxic, and we just want to play the game.
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i wanna add some more "two cents":
about performance (only talking pc): i think those folks that "suffer" from "unoptimization" are, except a few folks that actually have old machines, mostly those ppl that "need 4k". yet i have to see a single dude that "needs" 4k because they can see individual pixels with their bare eyes on 1080p. you don't, so either stop using over-the-top unneccessary high resolution, or learn to live with, so "i must have most shiny gfx that i won't notice the difference after 20 hours anyway" --> lower fps.
a side-note to that: post-processing effects do soak up a lot of calculation time. wether you have to render each frame once, or each frame twice, does make a big difference no matter your hardware. again i'm old, i don't need shiny gfx. i disable all post-process effects in my driver. including anti alias which wouldn't even be post process if set to MSAA instead of SSAA. but stuff like Tessellation and such crap -> never ever.
edit: using an AMD RX 6700 XT which by no means is new hardware. yet the game runs at 90-145fps at any time. 90fps is when the screen is full of gfx.
honestly that's much better than most other new games run on my machine with my preferred settings.
you're on a computer. you can adjust settings, unlike on a console. so do that. like not doing so is just..whenever i have a new game, first thing i do is setting up settings for performance. try that in the future :)
I feel ya, but the game is legitimately very unoptimized. I'm on a 5600XT with decent settings on 1080p and about middle of the road on FSR, game looks great and runs at 60fps, but judging by the visual quality the game should run 2-3x better than it does.
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It is when the loud minority of the community wants them to make the game like POE1.
They already have a POE1, that will continue to get updated. It's idiotic to make 2 games at the same time for the same people, when the game is free and dependent on microtransactions.
The idea is to bring in an entirely different crowd of ARPG players.
Wait, poe2 was funded by poe1 players.
It was announced as a sequel.
It used the fanbase to gain hype, but now we're not welcome anymore?
What do you mean?
No, the game is funded by Tencent, who has more wealth than any single person in the world, they're the 16th wealthiest company on earth.
It was announced as a sequel but then changed to being standalone game developed side by side with POE1 and it would be different. This has been known for a long time now.
If you guys had hype for the game after exilecon, when you SEEN with your own eyes that the game was slower than POE1 and methodical, I don't know what to tell you.
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People complaining want to be handed a silver platter like in 0.1.0
Minions were nerfed to the ground.
Monsters life were buffed to double or more.
Then they recognised their mistake.
How could be that the players fault?
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yes you are right. i agree. nonetheless he was doing a "general statement" and you're nitpicking a specific example.
And yes this "generalization" is the worst kind of arguing.
That is why I chose a big issue to make it clear that the "generalization" is not true.
They were so many players whose builds were crushed, not just nerfed.
They were rightfully confused about the state of the game.
So mentioning the "silver platter" is just trolling.
No it's not, we seen players reaction to the patch before it even went live. NERFS?! OMG NERFS?! UGH!
You're arguing a mute point dude, the entire industry already knows this. It's why devs say it's almost impossible to nerf things after you give it to players, because so many players want 3 things, speed, power, and loot, you take that away from them and they feel bad.
Honestly it's simple minded. I mean it's their preference, cool, but it's so short sighted. Games are so much more than that, and POE2 is trying to be more than that, more than just a spreadsheet gambling simulator.
It's trying to be a spreadsheet gambling simulator with engaging combat. And many people don't want that, because engaging combat means being incentivized to have engaging combat, which means slower than "one button kill" combat. They don't really care about the combat, they care about how many monsters on the screen they can blow up(hence the anger at the breach nerfs), and they only care about that because more monsters = more loot.
They're hyperfixated on the reward, on that silver platter. It's the same thing with map size. GGG says they will add more checkpoints and players go "no, the maps are too big, that doesn't help us!", while they map for 6 hours straight. They want to complete the map so they can get to the next map and the next map until they get to pinnacle bosses or maps with better base modifications.
People aren't kidding when they say these people will find anything to complain about, because the game is just a chore to them, what they play for is the loot.
And a game developer should never capitulate to people complaining who just want the game to end as fast as possible(they don't even realize that's what they really want). They should listen to the rest of us who want to play it, who like the campaign, who enjoy making builds(not meta slaving), and who just simply like the game and it's vision.
Last edited by Empowereddave#0228 on Apr 8, 2025, 3:49:50 PM
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yes i understand. i personally just didn't go over the database because i'm busy leveling, thus i read "no new gems" while i'm using new gems. i hope you understand too :)
about crashes and other severe issues (i.e. missing ascendancy): yea that's horrible, and certainly a big lack of quality control before releasing a new patch. i do wanna add to that: if you're on eu Gateway experiencing lag-related issues, not all gateways act the same. just try which works best. i had big issues on sunday, and found one that works. it's now fine. no dc and hardly any lag spikes.
huge maps: i like it, and i like the maps in general. they do very much remind me of Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 1+2. but i'm old ^^
also i do very much understand anyone that lacks time for completing a map and then also killing the boss when you have to repeat some parts. yes that can cause issues. but i personally am not much affected by this, i am used to old games that didn't even had a save-file to begin with, and i also played A LOT more difficult games.
hence i'm always advocating for adjustability in a game. 10/10 times that would solve a lot of community issues, simply because we're not all the same human =)
and about "the vision is blind", i guess you're talking to the wrong guy.
i am here precisely because of said vision. i wouldn't be here if this game would be zoom zoom loot loot. i don't care if i die 10 times to a boss, BUT I DO CARE IF I'M BORED. i'm here because of mechanics, not because of %stats increases.
Thank you for your time in writing this answer :D
I myself enjoy high difficulty in many games.
However, what we have here is way off the mark.
If the difficulty is high, the reward must be high.
Doesn't it make sense to live in high difficulty for hours on end without any reward?
Deep down I believe that we all want the best for this game, and that this could easily be solved by having a "fun" league format and a "hard" league format.
The only thing stopping this solution from being implemented is the ego pain it will cause some dev when 99% of the players migrate to the "fun" league and their "vision" proves unpopular.
Don't you think?
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Posted byOllidamara#4774on Apr 8, 2025, 3:46:13 PM
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i wanna add some more "two cents":
Thank you for taking the time to contribute to this post.
Regarding performance issues, I believe that most of the time it is people with a reasonable PC.
I believe that most people know how to differentiate a lag problem caused by poor optimization from a crash problem caused by a programming error.
Especially because they behave differently.
Like people getting stuck when entering a city
Leaving the map
Anyway
I believe that in this programming sense the most frustrating thing is really the irreversible errors like the one with infinite money in the "ritual" we just witnessed.
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Posted byOllidamara#4774on Apr 8, 2025, 3:52:13 PM
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MONSTER DAMAGE NEEDS TO BE LOWERED WHAT IS THIS.
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Posted byKage#1250on Apr 8, 2025, 3:52:34 PM
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All great games filled a niche, some bigger and some smaller.
Smaller is not good for GGG.
It is when the loud minority of the community wants them to make the game like POE1.
They already have a POE1, that will continue to get updated. It's idiotic to make 2 games at the same time for the same people, when the game is free and dependent on microtransactions.
The idea is to bring in an entirely different crowd of ARPG players.
There exists no crowd for "ARPG players who want slow and tedious rollslop where you replay a 30 hour campaign every time you make a character". You're a sad shill. People want the game to be more like PoE, because PoE is the best ARPG of all time. PoE2 the way it is now is not even top 10 of the genre.
"It's idiotic to make 2 games at the same time for the same people"
Its only idiotic to think that would be idiotic. Actual ARPG fans, which you clearly are not, would play both.
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I don't mind the map sizes, though I do agree there needs to be ample checkpoints to get around the backtracking issue since killing all rares is the goal for most maps.
I find it kind of funny people complain so much about map size, but they'll map for 6 hours. Whats the difference between 2 mid size maps and 1 large map? You complete 2 maps in the time it takes you to complete one.
But what does that mean? It means you get to progress to the next section of the map faster. Why does that matter? Because you can get to citadels and maps with better base modifications.
So lets do a thought experiment. If GGG made all the good stuff twice as close, if they essentially made the map half as large(I know it's infinite), half the distance to the big stuff, what would players do?
99.999% chance they'd still complain almost exactly as they are that maps are too large. The majority of the complaints about this game are from people who have very little understanding of what they're talking about. They can't see things in the big picture. They can't see the vision of the game, they can't see why things go together, ect.
They complain of "slow" as if "fast" is inherently good. These are simple minded people who just flat out don't know what they're talking about. You can't have methodical gameplay unless its slower than it was(1 button to kill anything), that's a design choice, that's a fundamental decision for the direction of the game.
But they talk as though it's an objective fact that the game is bad because it was slowed down. There needs to be more viable build diversity, but there will be in the future as more stuff gets added and changed. But as of right now, there are several builds that take things down in 1 hit, whites, some blues and bosses go down relatively quick.
People complaining want to be handed a silver platter like in 0.1.0 where they can make a mediocre build and still 1 hit whites and blues. Where's the incentive? If walking speed is the same, so you get to the next mob pack the same no matter what, where is the incentive and consequently the reward for making a decent build? There isn't, in 0.1.0 there was only an incentive to clear breaches faster(with more AOE) and bosses(faster than what... 10-15 seconds on average for a mediocre build?).
You think differently from most people, and that's okay.
But I think we can agree that if there was a "fun" league and a "rutless" league like in POE1, all this division would be resolved?
Those who enjoy each style would have the freedom to choose, wouldn't that be better?
What's stopping this from being implemented?
(I don't need to say that in POE1 99% of players don't play rutless, and we know that what prevents the "fun" mode from being implemented is the ego behind the expression "the vision".
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Posted byOllidamara#4774on Apr 8, 2025, 3:57:11 PM
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The community is like....
Thank you for your time contributing to this post :D
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Posted byOllidamara#4774on Apr 8, 2025, 3:58:54 PM
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