The reason End Game sucks in almoast every ARPG

I am notoriously one of those people that is very very rarely drawn in by end game. For me, the experience I enjoy is playing through with a build in mind until I reach whatever the end of the current content is, when I have been able to beat the crap out of that content, I make a new character.
If that content is ever expanded, I'll revisit my 'finished' characters, and I might screw around on them from time to time. I have to agree with Charan that I think people are mistaking maps as being part of the natural flow of gameplay and I really think that is mistake to approach them that way. They should be considered extra content, if nothing else.
However, I know I am in the minority since you have people grinding to 100 either way. Anyway, I'd prefer more focus on the acts and improving the flow of the game from 1-whatever the current content caps out at, and less focus on trying to create an end-game. Let the end game happen naturally.

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Hackuseme wrote:

PoE's end game system is actually quite good. Most of the complains deal with players becoming bored or frustrated with the end-game experience and item grind, but this has little to do with the system and more to do with the content and challenge the system is employing. However, the problem isn't the grind itself. The problem is that by end-game the grind is the only focus left.

The experience and challenge become arbitrary and boring. In my opinion the following would help end-game a lot without actually requiring much development.

- Maps need to be innately larger with higher mob density.
- Mobs in maps need to be buffed significantly in mobility, hp, and mitigation.
- Bosses need a lot more HP and mitigation with proportionate increases to their drops.

In other words maps need to be bigger, take longer, be more dangerous, and be proportionately rewarding. This way the experience changes from chaining maps to "Can I beat this map?".

I LIKE this, though I think we can do a scale. Have the lower leveled maps be 'chain' maps you can plunge through. Have high level maps be challenge maps. You plow through L60s maps, then out drops a L75 and you pause. You pause not just because of the rarity or the bonus, but you pause because you might've been shown the end of your character's life.

You WANT to go there. There's benefits there you can't get elsewhere. however, you know there's a good chance you aren't coming back. Bah, you can bring 5 of your close friends and you KNOW at least one of you won't make it.

I want it to be the point where most players run through low level maps like normal, but if they get a map like that they shake their head and trade it since it's not worth it.

completeing L77 Shrine, UNMODIFIED, should be an event talked about.


This, mixed in with what seems to be GGG's idea of having your leveling be done mostly through the Acts (so that you don't have to do those high end maps to max level, though it will be a grind), sounds awesome.

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I LIKE this, though I think we can do a scale. Have the lower leveled maps be 'chain' maps you can plunge through. Have high level maps be challenge maps. You plow through L60s maps, then out drops a L75 and you pause. You pause not just because of the rarity or the bonus, but you pause because you might've been shown the end of your character's life.

You WANT to go there. There's benefits there you can't get elsewhere. however, you know there's a good chance you aren't coming back. Bah, you can bring 5 of your close friends and you KNOW at least one of you won't make it.

I want it to be the point where most players run through low level maps like normal, but if they get a map like that they shake their head and trade it since it's not worth it.

completeing L77 Shrine, UNMODIFIED, should be an event talked about.


This, mixed in with what seems to be GGG's idea of having your leveling be done mostly through the Acts (so that you don't have to do those high end maps to max level, though it will be a grind), sounds awesome.

If they imployed a version of high lvl maps like this it would be very interesting, and it would be very cool. But then i believe they should add achievements to the website account's "completed shrine map with following mod's XXXX" would be an awsome thing to hunt for etc..

I think they should also add "act map's" like complete an entire act in mercilles with mod's on it (race style) and then put in some achievements aswell, this would be very challenging because u would literaly have to take a 5 hour break to complete this goal, so it would be very cool for teamplay suport.

Basicly i think they should add achievement's anyway, since PoE is constantly evolving they could add achievement's as they develop, and this in return would make players grind area's without feelling it as a grind, but more like a quest/hunt.

When i played diablo3 i found one of the most entertaining things to do between grinding, achievement hunting, because all of a sudden killing rare mobs became a trill instead of a grind, its just another experience when there is something other then just looting the mob.
Maybe they could add a "headhunter" thing xD, like if u kill a rare mob he drops some sort of alchemy piece(not talking about the orb) wich u can then do something with, but u must collect 10 of them ore so. This would actively distract players from the grind and give a greater purpose to it.

If you talk about scaling map difficultly then the current issue for that is character progression scales to the point that many end-game mobs never have a chance to deal dangerous damage because they:

a) Don't move fast enough.
b) Die too quickly.
c) Attack too slowly.
d) Get perma-CCed by status effects.
etc...

This is why I suggested HP, mitigation, and mobility need to be innately higher for mobs in maps. One could even tie this into solutions for the "Path of Healthnodes" by taking the buff to mob survivability and damage dealing proficiency and combining it with a nerf to mob damage and a simultaneous nerf to life leech. In fact I'll probably go make a suggestions thread about that point.

Harder maps aren't the solution. They'll either be so difficult only people with godlike gear can do them safely in which case everyone else will just sell them to the top 1% and never touch them or they'll be scaled to be difficult to the average player in which case the top x% of players will faceroll them like any other map.

Played out a few characters, and i've noticed something ... odd. ES armor, for example, is only 3 to 100 up to level 60+ (should be more like 600, but isn't). But only 10-20 levels from that, it can magically skyrocket to 1,000. No matter how many ES nodes I take, i cannot break 2k up to act2 merciless at level 60-65. No such ES armor over 150 at that point.

Anyone else notice the scaling is off pretty bad?

I feel the end game is just collect exalts and buy the top end gear. The trading is quite stressful cause of trade chat spammers... I don't want to have to search forums for trading this not 1990

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momonami5 wrote:

I feel the end game is just collect exalts and buy the top end gear. The trading is quite stressful cause of trade chat spammers... I don't want to have to search forums for trading this not 1990

D2jsp format site would be awesome and i think this comes close
http://poexplorer.com/

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Dakarian wrote:

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Hackuseme wrote:

PoE's end game system is actually quite good. Most of the complains deal with players becoming bored or frustrated with the end-game experience and item grind, but this has little to do with the system and more to do with the content and challenge the system is employing. However, the problem isn't the grind itself. The problem is that by end-game the grind is the only focus left.

The experience and challenge become arbitrary and boring. In my opinion the following would help end-game a lot without actually requiring much development.

- Maps need to be innately larger with higher mob density.
- Mobs in maps need to be buffed significantly in mobility, hp, and mitigation.
- Bosses need a lot more HP and mitigation with proportionate increases to their drops.

In other words maps need to be bigger, take longer, be more dangerous, and be proportionately rewarding. This way the experience changes from chaining maps to "Can I beat this map?".

I LIKE this, though I think we can do a scale. Have the lower leveled maps be 'chain' maps you can plunge through. Have high level maps be challenge maps. You plow through L60s maps, then out drops a L75 and you pause. You pause not just because of the rarity or the bonus, but you pause because you might've been shown the end of your character's life.

You WANT to go there. There's benefits there you can't get elsewhere. however, you know there's a good chance you aren't coming back. Bah, you can bring 5 of your close friends and you KNOW at least one of you won't make it.

I want it to be the point where most players run through low level maps like normal, but if they get a map like that they shake their head and trade it since it's not worth it.

completeing L77 Shrine, UNMODIFIED, should be an event talked about.


This, mixed in with what seems to be GGG's idea of having your leveling be done mostly through the Acts (so that you don't have to do those high end maps to max level, though it will be a grind), sounds awesome.

This sounds like a badass idea. I like going into areas that I am fairly certain I will not return from. I think there needs to be more challenge maps. Perhaps released above the current ones so as not to mess with the "flow" of things right now. Maybe as the content gets finished we will see these kind of things pop out at the 100+ map levels. maybe we will see enemies reaching above level 100...

Don't see why we have to 'protect the flow'. This is Beta. If you wanted stability you would be playing Tetris instead of a beta game. GGG already proved that they are willing to shake the system up to make it work and they are already looking for ways to improve the map system.