Endgame punishment actively motivates to quit the game.

Well from the ladder, it surely did actively motivate 18 people to reach level 100 which is a really good number of top ladder players btw, and 1000+ people to reach level 98.

"

LennyGhoul#7115 wrote:

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Well, it's supposed to motivate you to improve your build and push you towards content that your current build can handle.

If you're unwilling to do either of those two options, then you certainly can indeed quit.

That's the entire point of the game. This doesn't do that. You can't improve your build if you can't run the content because you keep losing the map and the experience and start regressing.

That's the entire point of the game. If you're doing badly, drop a couple map tiers, go slower, learn mobs and their abilities...most importantly, you're not regressing at all. You lose 0 player power for dying.

"

LennyGhoul#7115 wrote:

The motivation to improve your build is literally what going through the entire game is. Nobody is not doing that. But when it becomes too punishing then it just promotes the tendency to focus on only META builds, and then you end up in a Diablo 3 situation where only 1 or 2 builds per class can do the top end game content.

PoE will never end up in that situation because it doesn't have "80,000% increased damage" set bonuses. And yes, if you're obsessed with being the "best", you will absolutely want to follow meta builds. That said, I created my own build and can do most endgame, still trying to upgrade to get the last couple tiers of Xesht and Ash, but I can run pretty juiced T16++ maps and keep progressing. Even when I die, I progress. I learn.

"

LennyGhoul#7115 wrote:

Build diversity is a huge reason why so many people play PoE, and this kind of punishment stifles it completely.

Not at all. There are tons of viable builds. Just because you're obsessed with only the best and you're literally boring yourself to death isn't anyone's fault but your own.

The problem is the access to beneficial gear.

Up until around T4-5 maps you get a steady supply of gear from vendors which might be of use to you. After that the gear they stock doesn’t really improve in a way that is enough to significantly boost your character to be progress it further.

This coupled with the lack of merchant restocks since levelling is much slower means that you hit a wall around level 80 if your character can’t survive well.

Yesterday I played for 10 or so hours and I increased my experience bar by 10% thanks to dying so frequently.

Things like the priest of the suns beams and overtuned white mobs oneshotting are a definite problem.

In addition the dropped loot that you get in mid endgame is not good enough in my personal opinion. I am a Witchhunter using double crossbows. One of my crossbows is a level 59 item and despite picking up and basic crafting every crossbow i see its still my best option at level 83.

I have reset my passive tree and xbow skills multiple times every day over the last two weeks but its incredibly frustrating as a non gemling stat stacker merc because you can either choose to try and build defences (merc is furthest from energy shield nodes) or you can build dps and die to any attack lol.

The people who day this is a skill issue are only partially correct. Yes theres a number of deaths I probably could have avoided however until you try playing a witchhunter with xbows then your opinions are skewed.

Also i have never used trade since it is too inaccessible. So people saying just buy better gear have to understand that that is impossible lol. If you play the game solo thrn you likely dont have a ton of orbs since you have been crafting.

I think that its a tuning issue specific to endgame however. Basically i dont think the meaningful gear ratio to monster difficulty is where it needs to be. Especially if you are playing without using trade.

"

nitefox1337#3569 wrote:

XP Loss on Char Death is a go to mechanic from incompetant devs.

Remove XP Loss, and the End Game becomes extremely boring. Its just maps that drop maps to farm maps, with a boss here and there.

Thats why they cant remove it.

Legendary items are worthless because of too many negatives. Same level gem drops are obviously worthless. Orbs are worthles because too heavy RNG. There are no rewards whatsoever in the game. It's just PoEFanboys trying to reach max level for no reason at all.


This is not Lost Ark where there are so many things to do they dont give a fck about your XP or Level.

In PoE the only End Game gameplay is killing monsters. Thats it. They have to cover that somehow and they chose the most lame way.

Not again :D

"

Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

"

LennyGhoul#7115 wrote:

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Well, it's supposed to motivate you to improve your build and push you towards content that your current build can handle.

If you're unwilling to do either of those two options, then you certainly can indeed quit.

That's the entire point of the game. This doesn't do that. You can't improve your build if you can't run the content because you keep losing the map and the experience and start regressing.

"

That's the entire point of the game. If you're doing badly, drop a couple map tiers, go slower, learn mobs and their abilities...most importantly, you're not regressing at all. You lose 0 player power for dying.”

Actually you are regressing. In lower map tiers you gain 0 experience so therefore you dont progress at all
and if you have bad rng or lise concentration for a split-second and die in a lower tier map you still lose the same amount of experience. The only way to increase your experience is to do higher level maps which you are undergeared for since useful gear drops in lower maps are practically nonexistent. This leads to a cycle where you cant improve your level or your gear.

I have played my character for 14 days (played time not ive been playing an hour for 14 days) and im level 83. Two weeks ago i was level 79. The wall is real lol.

I play ARPGs (and games in general) for almost 3 decades now and when I get punished by failing a content it motivates me to improve.

To improve either gear and/or player skill vise.....And living the same mentality for everything I do in real life.

Don't give yourself up and start to improve, no matter how often you fail. ;)

"

Xyclone#7339 wrote:

Also i have never used trade since it is too inaccessible. So people saying just buy better gear have to understand that that is impossible lol.

"I refuse to engage with all the aspects of the game, therefore it is impossible to progress"

SSF would like a word.

Everyone who plays trade but only uses the currency trader would like a word.

More importantly, you feeling inconvenienced doesn't make something impossible.

"Sorry boss, tried to come to work today, but there was a sign on the front door to go around back and I just couldn't be fucked."

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Well, it's supposed to motivate you to improve your build and push you towards content that your current build can handle.

If you're unwilling to do either of those two options, then you certainly can indeed quit.

Yes, because running into a rare mob that drains mana, has haste and movement speed, then explodes on death for over 3k damage (at least - my entire health and shield pool - and yes, I have max resists too) before you can run or dodge out of the way, therefore losing xp progress, the map, the transmutation, augments, regal, and exalted orbs is such fun.

Especially when, in order to get to said map tiers, you have to transmute all of the lower level maps that drop to get up to the current level your running. I apologize if the game's RNG doesn't give my gear perfect rolls on all of the perfect stats in order to progress to the next level of map, which is still supposedly 8 levels below my character's level.

Keep the XP loss, just allow the players to re-enter the map without resetting the bloody instance for each portal that opens. Or, I suppose its a "skill issue" by not wanting to pause the game when death seems imminent and then quit the game, relaunch and go back into the instance, which is supposedly is fine with the dev's, but just sounds like a B.S. excuse to me.

XP loss is infuriating, fun-killing and absolutely needs to go away. One death per map is more than enough punishment and whoever wants a bigger challenge can play HC and/or SSF.

"

Xyclone#7339 wrote:

Actually you are regressing. In lower map tiers you gain 0 experience so therefore you dont progress at all
and if you have bad rng or lise concentration for a split-second and die in a lower tier map you still lose the same amount of experience. The only way to increase your experience is to do higher level maps which you are undergeared for since useful gear drops in lower maps are practically nonexistent. This leads to a cycle where you cant improve your level or your gear.

I have played my character for 14 days (played time not ive been playing an hour for 14 days) and im level 83. Two weeks ago i was level 79. The wall is real lol.

Gaining 0 xp isn't regressing. Not leveling isn't regressing. Doing T3 instead of T7 maps isn't SUCH a massive drop in gear quality that you'd even notice most times. Heck, back into cruel act 3 most things can drop with all but the top tier or two of affixes.

And my monk has ~12 days played, with LOTS of that afk for family, bathroom, etc...at level 96. I've been within 10% of 97 twice and dropped below halfway. You know why I don't care? Because it's a game about LOOT, not about XP GRINDING. It is NOT Lost Ark or any other MMO. It is a LOOT game and you lose 0 LOOT by dying.

And no, I didn't build copy. I kept away from all PoE streamers for 2 weeks and just made a monk and toyed with it until it kinda worked. It's still 1/10 as good as the top builds, but it's mine, I made it function, and I worked f'n hard at it.

Edit: Okay, I've seen the mirror drop at time of death meme already, you can definitely lose a map's worth of loot if you plan on picking it back up at the end, but that's a 1-portal issue, and not a valid argument to be like, "every death is a mirror lost!" just so we're clear.