Please regulate the economy

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Strangehill#1736 wrote:

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Aranéïde#3664 wrote:

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Strangehill#1736 wrote:

Capitalism is as far away from time == money as there is to get in any economic system

Depending on where you are in the system, it absolutely is. Not all time is priced equally though, but this is another debate.

You're arguing against your own point a bit I think by raising the analogy though. "Where you are in the system", if you're at the bottom, you're sifting litter off the floor looking for anything of value. If you're at the top, you're exploiting other people's time for profit.

I think the PoE market is unfettered capitalism (outside of exploits and cheating, which is a whole different topic)

As to whether it should be? Every MMO economy I can think of uses a free market, some have taxes, but I can't think of any where they've controlled the market through game mechanics, other than fiddling with supply (which PoE has been known to do)

I'm sure there are I haven't played every single one, but the most successful ones don't

PoE market is unfettered capitalism for me as well.

I just have a much stronger opinion on wether it should be or not. It's a resounding no if that wasn't clear already :D.

As to why I have this opinion is pretty clear to me : when I play an ARPG like PoE, I'm a solo player. And I'm quite sure I'm not alone here, it feels like mapping/bossing/whatever alone is more the norm than playing together. I may be incorrect on that as I don't have the stats obviously.

Therefore, I don't want my solo experience to be polluted by people playing the market economy. I don't want a price of an item to reflect how much a market economy player is willing to pay for it, but to reflect only how difficult it is to obtain. I don't want the price to reflect how much demand there is for it, I want the price to reflect how much time I would have to spend in average if I were to get it myself. There is still place is such a system to get lucky and have big fast forward drops that also make the salt of this game.

That's why I want a regulated economy, but as I've hinted as before, I would also be perfectly satisfied with an SSF system actually balanced around being SSF. In fact I would even prefer it.

I played a few "successful" MMO and yes they were mostly using a free market, and every time it felt bad.

The goal of my OP was to give that feedback, that there is a population (as I believe I'm not alone) that is a client for a proper tailored experience which is not polluted by an atrocious economy. Will they ever make it ? I don't know. I will play it if they do.

I will likely stop playing PoE 2 as I stopped playing PoE 1 for the same issues that were here years ago, and that makes a bit sad because if I decouple the game from its economy, it's a great game I would really like to play.

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

So if this is not real economy and a large majority prefer to buy from bots, then why not have a trade house where you just buy stuff that is offered for sale? Bonus points if you obfuscicate both sides of the transaction enough to make RMT 99.99999% impossible?

You are describing my dream SSF experience here.

Something people forget in PoE is that, much like the real world, many of the game's wealthiest players attain that status every league because they're part of farming and crafting groups that work together to corner the market early. Or more accurately, they get their lackies and bots to farm/trade for shards and orbs to dominate the market within the first few days. Group play is just that much stronger. Which is fine when SSF exists... except the current drop rates seem to be tuned around Trade league.

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Gwonam#5505 wrote:

Something people forget in PoE is that, much like the real world, many of the game's wealthiest players attain that status every league because they're part of farming and crafting groups that work together to corner the market early (or more accurately, they get their lackies to farm/trade for shards and orbs to dominate the market within the first few days). Group play is just that much stronger. Which is fine when SSF exists... except the current drop rates seem to be tuned around Trade league.

I never understood why they didn't want to make a proper SSF with balanced rates and maybe a few additionnal vendors/recipes/whatever. This would be my dream PoE experience.

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

So if this is not real economy and a large majority prefer to buy from bots, then why not have a trade house where you just buy stuff that is offered for sale? Bonus points if you obfuscicate both sides of the transaction enough to make RMT 99.99999% impossible?

Oh, how I wish we had a market board. Or if we could just buy and sell items straight from each others' inventories. But every time you suggest that idea, you're usually met with silence or flunkies coming out of the woodwork to defend the intimate social experience of avoiding runeword scammers in Diablo 2 Act 1. Granted, I did have a fun interaction with another player over my username the other day. But those interactions are so few and far between that I'm willing to give them up for a market that's less susceptible to price fixing and RMT influence.

If nothing else, a market board would let us buy bulk maps tailored to our builds and needs. Having to sift through dozens of inactive listings for +exp or +quant/rarity maps (aka the ones that matter) is such a motivational vacuum.

I grow increasingly tired of Chris Wilson's Wild Libertarian Ride year by year ;_;

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Gwonam#5505 wrote:

I grow increasingly tired of Chris Wilson's Wild Libertarian Ride year by year ;_;

We are least two here, and for the anecdot, I did say to another player I loved his username and that it made me laugh the other day. Would be funny if it was you.

Right. I've caught up with your argument (classic case of skimming first post then jumping in at the last page)

I would say that there aren't enough different ways to earn currency in-game to spread the wealth about, like there is in 1.

I've only played to win a couple of leagues (harvest and settlers), and neither time have I had issues playing the game with my limited play time to get what I need to consider my build complete and my goals achieved.

Most other leagues, I've faffed around for a bit with different builds and hit a wall where they're not good enough to properly tackle high end game, but it's not really bothered me too much as this isn't the only thing I can bear to do with my spare time.

I haven't even bothered with this economy, it's so obviously terrible, but I'm putting that down to it being first-league-in-early-access troubles and just waiting for the economy reset before trying a bit harder next time.

As for the top earners? I can't say I've noticed them causing much of an issue, the drop in value between tier 1 and tier 2 is immense and you don't need the toppest of top gear to achieve everything there is to achieve in here

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Aranéïde#3664 wrote:

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Gwonam#5505 wrote:

I grow increasingly tired of Chris Wilson's Wild Libertarian Ride year by year ;_;

We are least two here, and for the anecdot, I did say to another player I loved his username and that it made me laugh the other day. Would be funny if it was you.

Honestly, it might have been! Squadellah

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Gwonam#5505 wrote:

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

So if this is not real economy and a large majority prefer to buy from bots, then why not have a trade house where you just buy stuff that is offered for sale? Bonus points if you obfuscicate both sides of the transaction enough to make RMT 99.99999% impossible?

Oh, how I wish we had a market board. Or if we could just buy and sell items straight from each others' inventories. But every time you suggest that idea, you're usually met with silence or flunkies coming out of the woodwork to defend the intimate social experience of avoiding runeword scammers in Diablo 2 Act 1. Granted, I did have a fun interaction with another player over my username the other day. But those interactions are so few and far between that I'm willing to give them up for a market that's less susceptible to price fixing and RMT influence.

If nothing else, a market board would let us buy bulk maps tailored to our builds and needs. Having to sift through dozens of inactive listings for +exp or +quant/rarity maps (aka the ones that matter) is such an motivational vacuum.

I grow increasingly tired of Chris Wilson's Wild Libertarian Ride year by year ;_;

Yeah. The kicker is if they did this and did not tell anyone about the obfuscication.. how would anyone know other than not being able to find their own listing for a "friend", and why would it matter?

+1 for "the mechanism of trade is awful and is a barrier to poor players and barely a blip to rich ones" though