Finding a sword in a yellowpile, the miserable experience of iteracting with yellows

"

Rhogog#6908 wrote:

But what is "a good item"? "One man's trash is another man's treasure"

It's probably super easy to define a 100x better item if you know math (I don't)

Maybe just make it more likely to roll higher tiers, whatever statistician magic one would have to employ to make it on average 100x better.

I get why it's not so trivial as 'make 100x more likely to roll top tier modifiers but drop 100x less items' (probably)

Imagine you roll 100,000 items
Then you apply some math that removes 99,000 of the items, leaving only 1000
I am not entirely sure if that's 100x better items + 100x less items, since you would be taking the top 1000 out of 100,000 maybe that would be 10,000 better items? Math is hard after all.
But there should be smart people that can figure it out

Maybe generate 100 items and only drop the one with the highest tier average?

"

Guedez#3472 wrote:

"

Rhogog#6908 wrote:

But what is "a good item"? "One man's trash is another man's treasure"

It's probably super easy to define a 100x better item if you know math (I don't)
Just make it 100x more likely to roll higher tiers, whatever statistician magic one would have to employ to make it on average 100x better.

Ah, fair enough. when I hear "bad item" I imagine an item that has "charm effect duration" or "thorns" or "accuracy" - that's a brick for me so a "good item" is an item without these stats. For me. But someone might be stacking these. That's why I asked this question.

If you have bought a bunch of stash tabs and have empty ones, you can use them as dump tabs. After your bags are full, port to town, dump everything in the dump tabs, then go back to your maps. Once all your dump tabs are full then take a minute between maps to go through them and clean them out. GGG's business model is selling a solution to the problems that they have created.

Loot needs some major rework in my opinion for sure. First of all, I have no idea what's the difference between a plain yellow item and a yellow item (Tier 1+)... I've picked up many Tier 3-4 items and they were just the same garbage as plain yellows. Maybe the game has some preferences for the tiered items however it's not something I can tell by playing the game. There's absolutely no excitement in me when I see a Tier 4 on the ground.

I understand why the "rich" players hide all the loot and just skip picking up the yellows. However ARPGs being highly focused on loot, incentivise players to pick it up. How is an average player with 2 Div in stash gonna get his/her 10 div+ worth of gear if not by looting? It's a gamble - to win at loot you need to play the looting game. Only once you've already won the looting game and your gear is great you filter it out.

Since I'm in the "poor" category, I'm doing what the game incentivises me to do - pick up bases and magics and work them up and pick up yellows + reforge three of a kind for another chance. I must have identified and crafted over 3 thousand yellows (I know that because I'm buying identify scrolls thousand at a time and I'm picking them up from the ground too) and it was all just garbage. And I'm also very lavish with my crafting mats - if I see something with 2-3 good mods I'll spamm chaos orbs on it untill eighter the good mods or the bad mods dissapear. Unfortunately the latter doesn't happen, couse for every good mod you have like 20 bad ones.

And the time I've spent on all this is far greater than the time I've spent on campaign + mapping. I'd much more prefer if yellows dropped at the rate of current Tier 3/4 yellows, and for them to be more tuned up, so that the loot becomes exciting and so it doesn't consume 70% of playtime.

"

I know that because I'm buying identify scrolls thousand at a time and I'm picking them up from the ground too

You do know that ctrl-clicking The Hooded One in any town identifies all items in your bags? You may mean you want the scrolls for out in the field.

I expect by now you're rich, rich, rich and this is all obsolete.

"

Blasphemous84#2190 wrote:

I agree with the TLDR. Game has way too much loot and it’s all garbage. The game would be SIGNIFICANTLY more fun if there was LESS, MORE IMPACTFUL loot.

This whole, “here’s a million base items, good luck RNG orb slamming” system is lazy as fuck. The devs should be responsible for making the loot. Not the players. As is, the only exciting loot drops in the game are orbs. Items are basically worthless. Feels bad.

i'm sorry to state something obvious, but if every item is impactful, then nothing is actually impactful >_>

"

honestly I find it a bit sad that people want games to just devolve into $/h grinding, and don't want to engage with items

People want to engage with items but after picking up literally thousands of "not the item I want" it gets old. As you progress it gets exponentially harder to upgrade and picking up thousands of items turns into picking up and rolling tens of thousands of items. If you want to progress you are required to engage with the miserable trade system. Instead of picking up items for yourself you're now trying to identify and sell gear for other people via an external site. If that's your kind of thing, more power to you. For most I think that's a pretty shitty experience that's gated by pure luck. I can guarantee the average player will be fully checked out by the time they realize that "Mr. Streamer's" gear is only achievable by playing 10 hours a day using very specific strategies or engaging in RMT. Most people want to pick up the game, play for at most 2-3 hours a day, experience some "linear-ish" upwards progression, and have "endgame" gear in 1-2 months. I'm sure your response is, "well this isn't the game for them", and that's totally fine. Unfortunately, that means this game is going to fall into the niche category in the same way PoE1 does and subsequently have probably the same or fewer players. My understanding was this was meant to appeal a broader audience but this game is definitely not that.

"

if you would just pick up items for yourself, and set your filter strict for only highest bases you wont have to ID so much. i have a filter that shows only items i pick up, and i pick up everything it shows

but this entire issue was created by ppl that want to see loot, yet they wont pick it up, they will just pick up orbs to buy loot because its easier for them. this is pretty evident when they complain about everything costing x divs. if its the case they should be selling their drops for divs right? well they never pick it up, they just want it to look like they getting lots of drops, but going through those drops is PITA because there is so many. devs should not be catering to this behaviour imo but this place is a casino so they need their 'ding ding dings'

Picking up thousands of objectively bad items is not fun or interesting gameplay. It's the tedious work we go through to get the dopamine hit of actually finding something good. That's basically like saying the physical action of pulling a slot machine lever is the fun part of gambling. Clearly you're missing a basic understanding of how rewards work in your brain. For a normal human there is some reasonable ratio of picking up shit to getting something good. When that ratio is too out of whack like it is in this game people get bored and move on. While you might be the exceptional oddity that literally enjoys the "physical action of pulling the slot machine lever", that simply is not what makes this game rewarding for the average human. The only difference between the "casuals" and "hardcores" in this game is that the "hardcores" are okay and willing to spend 100x the time investment while the "casuals" get bored after picking up their 500th shitty item.

I want to emphasize:
- People do not pick up loot because 99% of it is not good for their build
- The odds of rolling a good or very good item for their build using currency is insanely low
- Most importantly, People do not want to engage with trade. They simply want to find good items for their build. Finding good gear for other people's builds SUCKS

Now imagine I tell you to find me a pair of expert lizard scale boots with 30%+ chaos res, 30%+ rarity, 200+ flat evasion, 150%+ to evasion rating, at least one other 30%+ to an elemental resist, and 30%+ movement speed. There's a chance you'll find them the first pair you pick up. More realistically though you will never find that exact pair of boots. You might however find a different pair of boots you could sell to someone and THEN buy those boots from someone who did get them. This brings us back to my earlier point, if you aren't willing to engage with a clunky external trade site and identify hundreds or thousands of items for other people's builds then the game is effectively over for you.

"

AintCare#6513 wrote:

you can find decent items for all kinds of builds from the ground, not sure what your threshold of 'good' is but item you described is beyond good and not required by any means.

The moment you spend a single divine in any item by buying something in the trade website you have already guaranteed that you will never find anything even remotely better than that by checking loot on the ground

I am correct in my statement 99.9% of the time and your 0.1% anomalous example you might soon give as reply means nothing.


Sometimes I wonder if the only people finding the good items are the ones stacking 1000 magic find using that shield and chest piece uniques.
Either way, the time you spend checking yellows is better spent getting more delirium/breach shards to sell for exalts to buy divines with if you want to get better gear.
It's not some divine/hour autism on my part, it's just the consequences of how the economy is shaping up.

they don't know how to do this

they tried to address this problem many times in poe 1, and they said they're finally solving this with poe 2

and look at where we are