Players shouldn't be able to one shot bosses

For some context, I played PoE1 for about 2000 hours and I'm also a big fan of every FromSoftware games.
I was very happy when GG announced their intentions with PoE2 as it looked like they took some inspiration from FromSoftware games. First feedbacks from early reviewers were also pointing out that inspiration. I was hyped.

Then I made my first character (Cold Chronomancer) and played through the campaign once. The first act felt really spot on, monsters are dangerous, bosses are great, you need to learn the patterns, build correctly, master the playstyle, ... This feeling progressively diminished during the campaign but remained none the less.

Then I reached the end game and all of a sudden it's PoE1 all over again. Just AoE as much as possible, forget about learning mecanics and dodging attacks, there is so much shit going on you have no time for that, killing mobs as fast as possible is both the best defense and the most efficient thing to do in order to progress. That's not the topic of this thread but here is some thought : there is no point in making PoE2 endgame the same as PoE1 endgame, if I want the PoE1 gameplay loop, I can just go play PoE1.

So because I did't enjoy the endgame but I enjoyed the campaign I made a bunch of different characters to experience the campaign all over again from different perspectives.
And the biggest issue I had is not with characters I don't know how to build yet and I'm under performing with (that's the fun part for me), it's with characters that are over performing.
Especially a very simple Titan I made, built around Rolling Slam, Infernal Cry and Perfect Strike. I finished the campaign recently with this character and I just one shotted almost every boss in the entire campaign. Even though this was not my first character so I had a better understanding of the game, in my opinion, this should not be possible.
I had almost the same experience with an Infernalist using Skeletal Snipers and Loyal Hellhound by just spamming the command skill that instantly explode on the boss since he is ignited by the hellhound. But at least the boss had the chance to use 1 pattern or 2 before getting heavy stunned and killed.


Bosses in FromSoftware games are fun because they are hard. They require the player to improve, to learn the patterns of the boss, to have a better control over their character and a proper build. Here I just used the exact same technique for the entirety of the campaign : 1 or 2 Rolling Slam to heavy stun => Infernal Cry => Perfect Strike => Boss Dead from the hit or from the ignite.

I guess a part of the community actually enjoy this power fantasy. But I personally find it boring and disrespectful towards the designers that worked on the numerous bosses of the game. The biggest success of PoE2 is the WASD playstyle making it a lot more dynamic and the bosses. Make players respect bosses, make them hard, make them drop a lot of loot and put them in every map. Nobody remember FromSoftware games for their trash mobs, the bosses are remembered.

Players should be able to 1 shot bosses with BIS gear.

That's not where we are today so I do agree with you - right now there are builds that can 1-3 shot bosses with minimal investment.

But that's not the issue by itself.

Lets look at WHY people are building to 1 shot bosses:

1 shotting the boss is the only way to guarantee success

Every pinnacle boss is full of 1 shot abilities and the penalty for failure isn't just respawning at checkpoint like it is in your favorite DS style game.


You're back in hideout and your key is gone. Go back to farming - for days.

Players are naturally going to focus on minimizing risk and leaving as little to chance as possible.

It is impossible to guarantee success through building defenses. It is possible to guarantee success through building offense. So here we are.

Also while you may like "underperforming" - for many of us, this is a power fantasy game and "underperformance" is unacceptable.

"It is impossible to guarantee success through building defenses."


That sums up the issues pretty well.

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Lets look at WHY people are building to 1 shot bosses:

1 shotting the boss is the only way to guarantee success

Every pinnacle boss is full of 1 shot abilities and the penalty for failure isn't just respawning at checkpoint like it is in your favorite DS style game.

I mean....there's also a very obvious other reason why people build that way. And likely the more realistic reason.

The most basic nature of rpgs and character building is to watch your power go up. More often than not, that leans damage first and defense secondary.

There are plenty of folks who have absolutely no problem dodging bosses and surviving. Yet they still build damage damage damage because that is what's fun for "most" people who play this genre. It's a very rare select crowd that actually prefers to make the tankiest character possible. Tanky and less powerful just isn't the "norm" for arpgs or really most any game out there.


I do NOT believe it should ever be possible to one-tap bosses. That is a complete failure of boss design, and upper scaling. In much the same way you criticize defenses.

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Lets look at WHY people are building to 1 shot bosses:

1 shotting the boss is the only way to guarantee success

Fully agree with you.

It's either 1 attempt per boss or bosses have OS mecanics but both is stupid.

In FromSoftware games, there is not that many OS mecanics from bosses AND you have as many attempts as you want. And they are still considered difficult bosses.
Here GGG is presenting a double punishment and it can only leads to what you're saying : 1 shotting the boss is the only way to guarantee success.

When only a few builds can achieve that, the rest of "possible" builds are just an illusion of choice.

But still, I don't think players should be able to OS bosses. GGG should change the balance of both character power and bosses so players don't have to and can't reach that level of power. The top tier players are skipping the boss mecanics, GGG is shitting on there own work by letting this happen and it's super sad.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Lets look at WHY people are building to 1 shot bosses:

1 shotting the boss is the only way to guarantee success

Every pinnacle boss is full of 1 shot abilities and the penalty for failure isn't just respawning at checkpoint like it is in your favorite DS style game.

I mean....there's also a very obvious other reason why people build that way. And likely the more realistic reason.

The most basic nature of rpgs and character building is to watch your power go up. More often than not, that leans damage first and defense secondary.

There are plenty of folks who have absolutely no problem dodging bosses and surviving. Yet they still build damage damage damage because that is what's fun for "most" people who play this genre. It's a very rare select crowd that actually prefers to make the tankiest character possible. Tanky and less powerful just isn't the "norm" for arpgs or really most any game out there.


I do NOT believe it should ever be possible to one-tap bosses. That is a complete failure of boss design, and upper scaling. In much the same way you criticize defenses.

In PoE 1 you could build a character that you could AFK in most boss fights.

In PoE 2 it's flat out impossible.

The boss design in PoE2 has abilities that are meant to kill you no matter what your build is.

This means that the 'right' way to do a boss it to ensure they get as few chance to 1 shot you as possible. This means going full glass canon and killing them before the mechanics.


Damage in PoE2 scales exponentially with investment.

Defense in PoE2 has diminishing returns.

I ain't a math major but I see a problem here don't you?

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Damage in PoE2 scales exponentially with investment.

Defense in PoE2 has diminishing returns.

I ain't a math major but I see a problem here don't you?

Yes....but we see a different problem. You are absolutely right. Your conclusion is that players SHOULD be able to one-tap bosses because they are full of oneshot potential themselves. But I see the damage scaling to be the problem. It should scale, but never to the point of being able to 1-tap a boss. That's just poor design.

That isn't to say defenses are ALSO suffering from poor design.

But the point of boss one-shots isn't to "test" your defenses...its literally designed to test your dexterity and actual, functional, ability to dodge them and read them.

I one shot T4 breach boss and T4 ritual boss with vine/splash mace/basic attack

I know it's a mechanic abusing but

1. the rest of mace skills are just dogshit, not worth playing tbh.
2. the punishment of failing a league boss is too harsh so i decide to run over them and enjoy the benefit of atlas passive points :)
3. the defence of hp/armour is, like Darth said in interview and Jonathan agreed, garbage.

I'm a 8 years poe1 player and 1.5K hour elden ring melee player.

I don't think I enjoy the fight THAT punishing in now EA's states as an elden ring player, so I decide to be a poe1 player now.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Damage in PoE2 scales exponentially with investment.

Defense in PoE2 has diminishing returns.

I ain't a math major but I see a problem here don't you?

Yes....but we see a different problem. You are absolutely right. Your conclusion is that players SHOULD be able to one-tap bosses because they are full of oneshot potential themselves. But I see the damage scaling to be the problem. It should scale, but never to the point of being able to 1-tap a boss. That's just poor design.

That isn't to say defenses are ALSO suffering from poor design.

Both are a problem yes.

Vast majority of 1 shot builds are going to vanish by next 'league' - they were specifically addressed in the interview with Jonathan saying that "we want players to do the mechanics - it's why we spent all this time creating and animating them".

Unfortunately I fear that they will do little about defense - 15% armor buff ain't going to be felt.

"

Mordgier#6997 wrote:

Players should be able to 1 shot bosses with BIS gear.

That's not where we are today so I do agree with you - right now there are builds that can 1-3 shot bosses with minimal investment.

But that's not the issue by itself.

Lets look at WHY people are building to 1 shot bosses:

1 shotting the boss is the only way to guarantee success

Every pinnacle boss is full of 1 shot abilities and the penalty for failure isn't just respawning at checkpoint like it is in your favorite DS style game.


You're back in hideout and your key is gone. Go back to farming - for days.

Players are naturally going to focus on minimizing risk and leaving as little to chance as possible.

It is impossible to guarantee success through building defenses. It is possible to guarantee success through building offense. So here we are.

Also while you may like "underperforming" - for many of us, this is a power fantasy game and "underperformance" is unacceptable.

I've done a couple pinnacle bosses and tanked most hits somewhere during the fights. I didn't get one-shot once. The only way I could've died is if I tanked multiple attacks in a row. Granted, it takes me about 15 minutes to kill the boss, but the fights are awesome.

Back on point; I agree that one-shotting bosses should not be possible