Why I love ARPG games.
" Then you should be aware of how much PoE 1 changed during the alpha/beta/launch timeframe. I suspect we'll see the same thing with PoE2, especially with the end game stuff. As for difficulties, people think Geonor is difficult, but he's got nothing on v.0.1.0 Brutus and Merveil back then. :D |
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I think it's wild that you're calling playing to level 91 and spending time in endgame a "first impression". You've borderline seen most of the content in the game by now, that's a bit more than a first impression, lol. That's PoE for ya, where you can have hundreds of hours in the game and still be considered a beginner :P
I'm curious though, why do you feel butt clenching doesn't belong in the realm of ARPG's? It seems a bit odd to say you can only enjoy ARPGs if they're relaxing, when there are other games where you enjoy not being relaxed. Like, it feels to me an odd conviction that an Action RPG like Elden Ring should be a butt clenchy game, but ARGPs shouldn't. Isn't the whole point of making new games to do something different to what the already available games are doing? Like, what would be the point of making a whole new game if it was just going to be PoE1 again? And if they're going to change up the formula, why does being an ARPG mean they can't experiment with a different approach to difficulty and tension? Obviously you don't need to like this style of ARPG, I just think it's weird to suggest ARPG's just shouldn't be like this. Last edited by MarsAstro#7928 on Jan 3, 2025, 5:21:46 PM
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" I think in PoE2 has the problem, that it constantly feels like butt clenching, if you don't play a zoom-zoom-everything-dies-build. Every encounter in endgame kills you so fast and you have to look out for so much in a cluttered screen. Lets take Elden Ring for example. How many enemies do you usually face at the same time? 1-3 enemies usually. And how fast are these enemies? Most of the time, they are as fast as you, maybe a little bit faster, but most of the time even slower. And if you take them on, how many enemies do you know that have revenge-on-death effects? There are only a handful I think, but other then that: Killing an enemy usually means you've won the fight. And how many effects are on the screen? It's rare that your screen is cluttered with effects. And how often do you encounter enemies? Usually, there are calm breaks in between encounters. You have to walk around and carefully look out for monsters. And if you get hit? Well, yes, you get tons of damage, but you usually don't die within 1 second. And what happens if you die? You may lose your souls, but you can get them back. That's it. Now lets take a look at PoE2. Usually, you have 10+ enemies when going through a mob. Most of the time, they are twice as fast as you, unless you have +35% walk speed and light armor equipped. You have to expect on-death effects in every encounter. There are so many screen effects, that it's hard to really dodge anything. Especially aoe on-ground effects are hard to see (like blood puddles). And even if you see them, you still have to dodge tons of projectiles on top of that, while staying away from melee enemy units. And while you fight, you very likely attract the next group of mobs and are constantly fighting until the map is cleared. And if you get hit in endgame? You usually die extremely fast if you don't move around or pop a potion. And on top of that, there is this constant feeling of losing 10% of your experience AND your map, thanks to 1-portal. And that is butt clenching. No one is saying that ARPGs shouldn't be butt clenching, but it's really extreme in PoE2. " I don't think he has suggested that it should be the same. But right now, PoE2 in endgame in exactly PoE1. Only very fast ranged zoom builds with lots of clearspeed feels viable right now. All the others are just to slow and face all these difficulties I have described above. And if GGG doesn't want that, they will have a VERY hard time to balance the game, since there are SO many build variations, that players will always find a way to break the game. So the real question is: How different can PoE2 really be compared to PoE1? |
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Did you try D4? It maybe could be a great game for you.
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Did you try D4? It maybe could be a great game for you.
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" I agree with you about the game, there's no doubt PoE2 has balancing issues and needs work. But that's honestly to be expected, there's a reason they're calling it Early Access, not full release. Given their league mechanic I wouldn't even expect the full release to be free of issues. This is a game that will see continued updates and reworks over time. I do think you're wrong though, by the way OP wrote I get the sense he genuinely thinks ARPG's are games that shouldn't be butt clenchy, they should only ever be games he can relax with. I get not being into PoE2, it's obviously not for everyone, but I don't see why one would suggest it's somehow failing to live up to the idea of what ARPG's should be. |
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This is going to sound weird but as someone who has also been down the aRPG path I feel like POE leans more towards hack and slash with story elements to be honest. It also works nicely as a "theorycrafting simulator".
Part of it is I think the RP part of aRPGs is often not given as much care as it should be. It's kind of what makes souls games popular. Lore is everywhere. Even non-boss mobs can drop items specific to them which can give you more insight on them, the overall area, or even major characters. As an example the Black Knight shield explains why they were called "black" knights and that they were fighting chaos demons (which implies whoever they served had beef with chaos demons). Then you can even visit the place where the demons are and fight them yourself. Boss fights are also more memorable (well, except bed of chaos who was probably memorable for the wrong reasons). Unless you were playing a very broken high DPS build the Great Wolf Sif fight was very emotional for many players (especially if you did certain DLC stuff). Once you fight these bosses a good number of them allow you to use their weapons/armor and "become them" which is great for the RP side. Domhnall of Zena sells much of the boss armors in dark souls. Souls games also give you choice on how you handle things. Elden Ring has several different endings and souls games (including back to demon souls) allow you to just straight up kill a number of important NPCs (which can effect other NPC interactions). While Wraeclast certainly has lore to it, a decent amount is tied to having to continually talk with NPCs and knowing which NPCs trigger additional dialogue under which conditions (to be fair souls NPCs have a similar setup depending on your progression but it's also not the only lore delivery mechanic). The other issue is that league releases mean bosses start to become less of a lore component and more of a DPS meter/progression method. It's why it feels weird when I see it being called a souls like. Difficulty alone is not enough, making us go slower isn't enough, adding rolling isn't enough (what caster in their right mind decides to evade by rolling around, also if you want to look "souls-like" using that where's my parry and backstab?). Until then I'd rather this game not be what people consider the "future of aRPGs". |
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Clearly poe 2 is not for you. Just move on - it won't change. Game will be even harder in time - as it supossed to be.
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I completely agree with the OP.
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" They can't make it harder until they get rid of the punishments. Oh, and if they game won't change what's the point of Early Access? Just call this the release and be done with it. |
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