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Counterpoint: CI negates the deadliest damage that seems to be spammed more than any other element. Chaos. Also poison and bleed.
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Posted byKarishin#7986on Jan 1, 2025, 9:27:34 AM
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The problem isn't just that ES is stronger than anything else, which it is, but that the strongest defense is being used by classes with a relatively safe playstyle, while the weakest one is being used by melee.
Ranged SHOULD be more squishy than melee, not the other way around.
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Posted byLaiTash#6276on Jan 1, 2025, 9:32:38 AM
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But that's a problem all classes have. If you want to have defensive layers, you need to invest some passives in them. I mean, there's not difference if a witch is investing 20 points into ES or a warrior ist investing 20 points into armor. I'd dare to say that the witch is better off with those 20 invested points, because ES nodes are just so strong right now.
That's the problem with all classes have? Is your stun threshold lowered to 1? Is your freeze threshold lowered to 1? There's a big difference if a Wtich has to spend points on fixing stun threshold, freeze threshold and ES nodes while a warrior can get life nodes (if there is any) armor and block nodes.
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Block can only be used by shield bearers. What about warriors using 2-handed maces? Witch and Sorcerers can go 2-handed and still have ES. But the warrior can only use it with 1-handed weapons. Furthermore, warrior need to invest in block AND armor, while witch/sorcerers only need to invest in ES and are good to go. And block doesn't help with area of effect damage, but ES does.
That is my point, Witch and sorc HAS ONLY ES. You don't see my point? If armor is in a good spot right now, you probably will see my point. It's your option to go 2h for more dps, like wise for sorc and witch, two hand means less ES. Area of effects can be block except for bosses that are clearly telegraphed and ES can't save you also with those. Block is stronger than POE 1 since you can block BOTH spells and attack without the need for spell block.
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That means you didn't get any faster start nodes. Also, there is no reason to not use grim reaper right now. And this heals your ES so extremely fast and lets it overflow. And I think you only have 5.5k, because your gear still has some bad rolls. On top of that, you still have Life, aren't you? Or did you skill CI? If you have life, then your life flasks work as good as for any other class.
Did not invest eh?
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Also, there is no reason to not use grim reaper right now
Actually there is, Archmage cost 100 spirit and blink cost 60.
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3 reasons:
1. You have a mana flasks that give you mana regeneration on top of your natural mana regeneration.
2. MoM only procs if your ES defensive layer is broken. So MoM is only meant for emergency, to protect you from one-shots.
3. In case you get hit, the passive node "Adverse growth" gives you 20% of damage recouped as mana.
You are so clueless how the archetype works.
1) Your mana flask is near useless on how much mana you are using. On top of that, you are locked into using inspiration because, your mana pool is not gonna protect you if its always empty. I have dream fragment and I can't take out inspiration. FYI, my spark uses 407 mana without inspiration and my mana flask restores 603 mana at 20% with 62% increased amount recovered.
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So keeping your mana pool up is quite possible, but you need to use your mana flask then. And since the damage from arch mage is based on your max mana and not your current mana, I don't see a problem for your dps.
What am I suppose to do? Spark once and run? You do not see the problem for my dps? I mean you clearly, obviously have no clue how archmage works nor function and yet you're bold to claim these?
Well, this is the problem with people with preconceive notions much worse if you actually have not played the build and have the guts to say "I don't see any problems". You saw one person have 10k ES and have 20k over ES and you assumed all CI or all hybrid/ES user are like that? I mean for real? you come to an argument like that?
P.S. For your information moving forward. Energy shield recharge delay modifier / faster start of energy recharge is how long is the "delay" for your ES to start charging WHEN you do not take any damage. Energy recharge rate is the rate at which your ES regen.
Last edited by iMirageX#4580 on Jan 1, 2025, 10:19:19 AM
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Posted byiMirageX#4580on Jan 1, 2025, 9:33:28 AM
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bumpping thread.. please for the love of god fix freaking armour and life..its SOO BADDDD COMPARED TO ES!!!!!
Last edited by Xinglifehard#1038 on Jan 1, 2025, 10:17:09 AM
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Posted byXinglifehard#1038on Jan 1, 2025, 10:16:54 AM
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But that's a problem all classes have. If you want to have defensive layers, you need to invest some passives in them. I mean, there's not difference if a witch is investing 20 points into ES or a warrior ist investing 20 points into armor. I'd dare to say that the witch is better off with those 20 invested points, because ES nodes are just so strong right now.
That's the problem with all classes have? Is your stun threshold lowered to 1? Is your freeze threshold lowered to 1? There's a big difference if a Wtich has to spend points on fixing stun threshold, freeze threshold and ES nodes while a warrior can get life nodes (if there is any) armor and block nodes.
Like someone else said, the "fixes" for thresholds are there and they are placed all over the tree, so it's easy to get some, no matter what build you are playing. And with these high amounts of ES, you only need one of the bigger nodes. And for freeze, there are charms that prevent it entirely.
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Block can only be used by shield bearers. What about warriors using 2-handed maces? Witch and Sorcerers can go 2-handed and still have ES. But the warrior can only use it with 1-handed weapons. Furthermore, warrior need to invest in block AND armor, while witch/sorcerers only need to invest in ES and are good to go. And block doesn't help with area of effect damage, but ES does.
That is my point, Witch and sorc HAS ONLY ES. You don't see my point? If armor is in a good spot right now, you probably will see my point. It's your option to go 2h for more dps, like wise for sorc and witch, two hand means less ES. Area of effects can be block except for bosses that are clearly telegraphed and ES can't save you also with those. Block is stronger than POE 1 since you can block BOTH spells and attack without the need for spell block.
This is not true. Witch/Sorc have good access to MoM as well, which is another defensive layer that can protect from all damage, even chaos damage(!) the weakness of ES.
And armor is in a very bad spot. It doesnt protect you from elemental damage, it doesn't protect you from chaos damage. And big hits bypass a huge amount of armor on top of that. Sorc/Witch may lose SOME ES when not having equipped a shield, but Warrior can't get any block or raise shield at all, the moment he uses 2h. So while sorc/witch have a choice between "less and more", warriors can only choose between "having it or not having it". And with 1h, you just lack clear speed, which sorc/witch certainly are already better at then warrior, no matter if they go 1h or 2h.
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That means you didn't get any faster start nodes. Also, there is no reason to not use grim reaper right now. And this heals your ES so extremely fast and lets it overflow. And I think you only have 5.5k, because your gear still has some bad rolls. On top of that, you still have Life, aren't you? Or did you skill CI? If you have life, then your life flasks work as good as for any other class.
Did not invest eh?
So you did invest a little bit. And you see what you have here? over 1k ES per second, without using grim reaper. And you don't need to protect yourself from chaos damage at all (hits, aoe, poison, bleed) thanks to CI and don't need to use chaos res on equipment, which give you access to other modifiers on your equipmen. Chaos damage is a big problem for many builds out there. And then you have MoM as well, as another protective layer. And all that while playing a ranged characters in safer spots then warrior.
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Also, there is no reason to not use grim reaper right now
Actually there is, Archmage cost 100 spirit and blink cost 60.
And grim reaper only 30 spirit and doubling your ES and healing your lost ES. And if you use blink, you shouldn't be in tight spots so much anyway. Again, all these options are hardly available for warrior and to some degree ranger (which is at least ranged as well).
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3 reasons:
1. You have a mana flasks that give you mana regeneration on top of your natural mana regeneration.
2. MoM only procs if your ES defensive layer is broken. So MoM is only meant for emergency, to protect you from one-shots.
3. In case you get hit, the passive node "Adverse growth" gives you 20% of damage recouped as mana.
You are so clueless how the archetype works.
1) Your mana flask is near useless on how much mana you are using. On top of that, you are locked into using inspiration because, your mana pool is not gonna protect you if its always empty. I have dream fragment and I can't take out inspiration. FYI, my spark uses 407 mana without inspiration and my mana flask restores 603 mana at 20% with 62% increased amount recovered.
And on top of the 603 mana you still have your natural mana regeneration, even if it is reduced. Furthermore, you're telling me MoM with arch mage is a bad option, on the other side you are showing us your skill tree with MoM skilled? If MoM is not useful/working in combination with archmage, why do you have it skilled?
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So keeping your mana pool up is quite possible, but you need to use your mana flask then. And since the damage from arch mage is based on your max mana and not your current mana, I don't see a problem for your dps.
What am I suppose to do? Spark once and run? You do not see the problem for my dps? I mean you clearly, obviously have no clue how archmage works nor function and yet your bold to claim these?
Since you have MoM, how much mana and mana regen do you have right now?
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Well, this is the problem with people with preconceive notions much worse if you actually have not played the build and have the guts to say "I don't see any problems". You saw one person have 10k ES and have 20k over ES and you assumed all CI or all hybrid/ES user are like that? I mean for real? you come to an argument like that?
First of all, many builds reach 10k ES in endgame nowadays, especially if you go CI and don't need good life rolls on your equipment. Secondly, people are not allowed to have opinions without having played every single build available? I mean, how many warriors have you played in endgame? Do you have a warrior at level 80+? Do you feel safer with him then with your ES build? I mean, 90% of the people coming in this thread clearly say, that ES is just way superior to any other defensive layer. Are they all wrong?
Yes, like any defensive layer, ES has some disadvantages. But the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. So much, that going ES ist just a no-brainer for many players.
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P.S. For your information moving forward. Energy shield recharge delay modifier / faster start of energy recharge is how long is the "delay" for your ES to start charging WHEN you do not take any damage. Energy recharge rate is the rate at which your ES regen.
I know that. I'm playing a sorc and a witch right now, but they are in cruel right now. Even during the campaign, ES feels way better already, especially with some faster start. And I haven't bought a single equipment for these characters and they already have way more ES then life.
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Posted byAceNightfire#0980on Jan 1, 2025, 1:42:07 PM
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> Armour sucks in comparison, it works on almost nothing that ES will protect you from
yep
yet everyone still dont understand energy shield have no effect agaist Chaos damage.
thats why people still die and think ES isnt working
POE2 = 90% chaos damage from just about everything.
almost to a point even NPC's in town just talking to you almost deal chaos damage...
the skill tree have 1500 nods... 3 of them arnt energy shield lol
worst tree design imo
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Posted byh311raiser69#0600on Jan 1, 2025, 11:32:06 PM
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i feel like ES is just working and the alternative life / armor is just not. Just because something is working doesnt make it OP. There is plenty of one-shot even you have a huge amount of ES. it just feels like its the one defensive layer that works atm. i feel like if they nerf ES they put a lot of new players at risk of just stop playing as its the only thing that kinda works.
There is so many things that do not work like item drops and every time i try to create an upgrade i just get something like -20% requirements mod on my item or some other BS that i cant use.
its so hard to create an upgrade. i cant do anything. just throwing items out in the wastebin.
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Posted byRamses11518#7218on Jan 1, 2025, 11:55:41 PM
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i feel like ES is just working and the alternative life / armor is just not. Just because something is working doesnt make it OP. There is plenty of one-shot even you have a huge amount of ES. it just feels like its the one defensive layer that works atm. i feel like if they nerf ES they put a lot of new players at risk of just stop playing as its the only thing that kinda works.
There is so many things that do not work like item drops and every time i try to create an upgrade i just get something like -20% requirements mod on my item or some other BS that i cant use.
its so hard to create an upgrade. i cant do anything. just throwing items out in the wastebin.
Since this is EA, it's better to bring them on par. They can either nerf ES to bring it on par with AR/EV, or they can buff AR/EV to make it as strong/useful as ES. Only then they can really start balancing mobs and bosses. Because if 40% of the playerbase (ES users) is saying, the game is okay and the rest says it's to hard (AR/EV users), then who is right? Their experience is based on the character they are playing and survivability is very dependent on character choice.
So nerf the one or buff the other two and then start balancing the game around that.
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Posted byAceNightfire#0980on Jan 2, 2025, 2:37:45 AM
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> Armour sucks in comparison, it works on almost nothing that ES will protect you from
yep
yet everyone still dont understand energy shield have no effect agaist Chaos damage.
thats why people still die and think ES isnt working
POE2 = 90% chaos damage from just about everything.
almost to a point even NPC's in town just talking to you almost deal chaos damage...
the skill tree have 1500 nods... 3 of them arnt energy shield lol
worst tree design imo
ES works against Chaos Damage. Chaos does double damage against it is all.
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Posted byRangoric#4598on Jan 2, 2025, 2:52:53 AM
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But that's a problem all classes have. If you want to have defensive layers, you need to invest some passives in them. I mean, there's not difference if a witch is investing 20 points into ES or a warrior ist investing 20 points into armor. I'd dare to say that the witch is better off with those 20 invested points, because ES nodes are just so strong right now.
That's the problem with all classes have? Is your stun threshold lowered to 1? Is your freeze threshold lowered to 1? There's a big difference if a Wtich has to spend points on fixing stun threshold, freeze threshold and ES nodes while a warrior can get life nodes (if there is any) armor and block nodes.
Like someone else said, the "fixes" for thresholds are there and they are placed all over the tree, so it's easy to get some, no matter what build you are playing. And with these high amounts of ES, you only need one of the bigger nodes. And for freeze, there are charms that prevent it entirely.
"
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Block can only be used by shield bearers. What about warriors using 2-handed maces? Witch and Sorcerers can go 2-handed and still have ES. But the warrior can only use it with 1-handed weapons. Furthermore, warrior need to invest in block AND armor, while witch/sorcerers only need to invest in ES and are good to go. And block doesn't help with area of effect damage, but ES does.
That is my point, Witch and sorc HAS ONLY ES. You don't see my point? If armor is in a good spot right now, you probably will see my point. It's your option to go 2h for more dps, like wise for sorc and witch, two hand means less ES. Area of effects can be block except for bosses that are clearly telegraphed and ES can't save you also with those. Block is stronger than POE 1 since you can block BOTH spells and attack without the need for spell block.
This is not true. Witch/Sorc have good access to MoM as well, which is another defensive layer that can protect from all damage, even chaos damage(!) the weakness of ES.
And armor is in a very bad spot. It doesnt protect you from elemental damage, it doesn't protect you from chaos damage. And big hits bypass a huge amount of armor on top of that. Sorc/Witch may lose SOME ES when not having equipped a shield, but Warrior can't get any block or raise shield at all, the moment he uses 2h. So while sorc/witch have a choice between "less and more", warriors can only choose between "having it or not having it". And with 1h, you just lack clear speed, which sorc/witch certainly are already better at then warrior, no matter if they go 1h or 2h.
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That means you didn't get any faster start nodes. Also, there is no reason to not use grim reaper right now. And this heals your ES so extremely fast and lets it overflow. And I think you only have 5.5k, because your gear still has some bad rolls. On top of that, you still have Life, aren't you? Or did you skill CI? If you have life, then your life flasks work as good as for any other class.
Did not invest eh?
So you did invest a little bit. And you see what you have here? over 1k ES per second, without using grim reaper. And you don't need to protect yourself from chaos damage at all (hits, aoe, poison, bleed) thanks to CI and don't need to use chaos res on equipment, which give you access to other modifiers on your equipmen. Chaos damage is a big problem for many builds out there. And then you have MoM as well, as another protective layer. And all that while playing a ranged characters in safer spots then warrior.
"
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Also, there is no reason to not use grim reaper right now
Actually there is, Archmage cost 100 spirit and blink cost 60.
And grim reaper only 30 spirit and doubling your ES and healing your lost ES. And if you use blink, you shouldn't be in tight spots so much anyway. Again, all these options are hardly available for warrior and to some degree ranger (which is at least ranged as well).
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3 reasons:
1. You have a mana flasks that give you mana regeneration on top of your natural mana regeneration.
2. MoM only procs if your ES defensive layer is broken. So MoM is only meant for emergency, to protect you from one-shots.
3. In case you get hit, the passive node "Adverse growth" gives you 20% of damage recouped as mana.
You are so clueless how the archetype works.
1) Your mana flask is near useless on how much mana you are using. On top of that, you are locked into using inspiration because, your mana pool is not gonna protect you if its always empty. I have dream fragment and I can't take out inspiration. FYI, my spark uses 407 mana without inspiration and my mana flask restores 603 mana at 20% with 62% increased amount recovered.
And on top of the 603 mana you still have your natural mana regeneration, even if it is reduced. Furthermore, you're telling me MoM with arch mage is a bad option, on the other side you are showing us your skill tree with MoM skilled? If MoM is not useful/working in combination with archmage, why do you have it skilled?
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So keeping your mana pool up is quite possible, but you need to use your mana flask then. And since the damage from arch mage is based on your max mana and not your current mana, I don't see a problem for your dps.
What am I suppose to do? Spark once and run? You do not see the problem for my dps? I mean you clearly, obviously have no clue how archmage works nor function and yet your bold to claim these?
Since you have MoM, how much mana and mana regen do you have right now?
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Well, this is the problem with people with preconceive notions much worse if you actually have not played the build and have the guts to say "I don't see any problems". You saw one person have 10k ES and have 20k over ES and you assumed all CI or all hybrid/ES user are like that? I mean for real? you come to an argument like that?
First of all, many builds reach 10k ES in endgame nowadays, especially if you go CI and don't need good life rolls on your equipment. Secondly, people are not allowed to have opinions without having played every single build available? I mean, how many warriors have you played in endgame? Do you have a warrior at level 80+? Do you feel safer with him then with your ES build? I mean, 90% of the people coming in this thread clearly say, that ES is just way superior to any other defensive layer. Are they all wrong?
Yes, like any defensive layer, ES has some disadvantages. But the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. So much, that going ES ist just a no-brainer for many players.
"
P.S. For your information moving forward. Energy shield recharge delay modifier / faster start of energy recharge is how long is the "delay" for your ES to start charging WHEN you do not take any damage. Energy recharge rate is the rate at which your ES regen.
I know that. I'm playing a sorc and a witch right now, but they are in cruel right now. Even during the campaign, ES feels way better already, especially with some faster start. And I haven't bought a single equipment for these characters and they already have way more ES then life.
All I can see on your reply are "I see this and it should work like that". Enough with empty discussion since I can emphasize enough how hollow your arguments are. Post a vid of you using archmage that is not pure mana, I am talking about archmage using Everlasting gaze doing t15 maps. If you can post a vid and then say ES is still OP, I would delete this thread and make another one apologizing to you, until then, your arguments and take about ES and mind over matter gives a strong impression of ignorance on these 2 defensive layers. Fixes aren't "fixes" when you spend too much points for these "fixes". I've shown you my tree, I have 2 jewels that adds to stun threshold for a total of 72% if I am not mistaken and yet, I can still get chained stunned very easily by physical mobs. I'll wait for your archmage vid.
Last edited by iMirageX#4580 on Jan 2, 2025, 3:17:30 AM
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Posted byiMirageX#4580on Jan 2, 2025, 2:56:40 AM
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